Raw Minds S2 Ep.12 - Healing from Toxic Relationships: Wes’s Guide for Young Minds

In this powerful episode of Raw Minds, we sit down with Wes Woodson, an inspiring public speaker, mental health advocate, and author who has dedicated his life to helping young people navigate the challenges they face in their relationships and mental well-being. Wes travels across the country, visiting schools and communities to shed light on some of the most pressing and often overlooked issues, including the impact of toxic relationships on our mental health.

In "Healing from Toxic Relationships: Wes’s Guide for Young Minds," we dive deep into the complex world of relationship dynamics, unpacking what makes a connection toxic, how to identify unhealthy patterns, and the toll these connections can take on our emotional and psychological health. Wes brings his unique and heartfelt approach to this crucial conversation, sharing personal stories, eye-opening insights, and actionable advice for those struggling to find their voice in the shadow of toxicity.

We explore topics such as:

How to recognize red flags and protect your mental space
The impact of toxic relationships on self-worth and emotional stability
Ways to break free from harmful cycles and begin the healing journey
Strategies for building healthy, nurturing connections that uplift rather than drain
Wes’s message is not only about identifying and breaking free from toxic ties but also about understanding how these experiences shape us and how we can reclaim our power to grow stronger. Through compassion and vulnerability, Wes opens up a path to healing that emphasizes the importance of self-awareness, boundaries, and surrounding ourselves with supportive, loving people.

Whether you’ve experienced a toxic relationship yourself or know someone who has, this episode is a guide to reclaiming your peace and rebuilding your mental health. Wes’s work continues to inspire and create ripples of change for young minds everywhere.

Follow Wes Woodson for more inspiration and resources on mental health and relationships:

Instagram: Wes Woodson Instagram
LinkedIn: Wes Woodson LinkedIn
YouTube: Wes Woodson YouTube
TikTok: @weswoodson
Website: weswoodson.com
Call to Action: If this episode resonated with you, share it with friends and family, and let’s continue to break the silence around mental health and toxic relationships. We’d love to hear your thoughts, stories, or questions, so don’t hesitate to reach out!

Contact Us: Email us at: rawmindspodcast@gmail.com
Follow and support our mission for mental health awareness on social media:

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Join us in this eye-opening episode as we learn how to heal, grow, and build the relationships we deserve. Remember, it’s okay to feel your emotions—and it’s more than okay to seek support. Tune in and find your way to a healthier mind with Raw Minds and Wes Woodson.

Chapters

• 0:05 Men's Mental Health Silence Shattered
• 7:14 Sacrifices for Success and Growth
• 12:49 Escaping Toxic Relationships for Self-Improvement
• 22:26 Navigating Toxic Relationships and Self-Worth
• 34:23 Breaking the Cycle of Toxic Relationships
• 44:32 Navigating Safe and Supportive Relationships
• 50:19 Healing From Toxic Masculinity and Anxiety
• 1:01:51 Parenting, Addiction, and Self-Accountability
• 1:10:54 Building Support Networks and Sharing Stories
• 1:23:37 Connecting With Past Stories, Closure
• 1:29:20 Healing Through Letter Writing and Release
• 1:37:38 Book Promotion and Support Conversation
• 1:44:02 Sharing Stories and Healing Journeys

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Ladies and gentlemen, we are back to the show that shatters the silence on men's mental health. We are unedited, unfiltered and, as always, we are back to the show that shatters the silence on men's mental health. We are unedited, unfiltered.

Speaker 2: 0:27

And, as always, we are going raw. My name's Anthony.

Speaker 1: 0:31

I'm Joey.

Speaker 3: 0:32

And I'm Eric, and we're your hosts.

Speaker 1: 0:39

And welcome to Raw Minds Raw motherfucking Minds.

Speaker 3: 0:41

Season two yeah, buddy, doing it big, doing it big, doing it big Every Monday, man, every Monday.

Speaker 1: 0:49

We're here, Every Monday you guys can see us and that's when we record. Every Friday, we are on every platform you can think of 13 countries across the world and we just keep going and going. And you know, the main reason why we do this is to just give back and help people. Man, that's it. Yeah, every one of us on this panel has lived a life of heartbreak, trauma, abuse, suicide, addiction. We come from all walks of life here and all squished into this one screen here. So you know, this is also our therapy and our counseling sessions, when we get to sit here every week and talk to you guys who are listening to.

Speaker 1: 1:43

You know, we've said it numerous times. I mean we ain't. You know, we've said it numerous times. I mean we, you know we psychiatrists, we licensed counselors, but we've lived that street life, we've lived the traumas, we've lived the pain most of our lives. So it really means a lot to be able to share this platform with, with you boys and the guests that we have on and and it's it's touching. So we want to thank you, I want to thank you, and it means a lot.

Speaker 3: 2:16

Well, we, we, we thank you and we thank everybody, and we thank all our listeners as well, man.

Speaker 2: 2:21

Yeah man.

Speaker 3: 2:23

That's what it's about.

Speaker 1: 2:23

Yeah, which also makes it a little more tough. Uh, going into this episode, you know, uh, myself and eric, you know we started this over a year ago. You know we were, we were. Our intention behind it was to save one person's life. That was it. It wasn't driven by money, it wasn't driven by fame. It was driven by really helping somebody in love. Yeah, because we genuinely care. We were there. We tried to kill ourselves. We've tried it. We've suffered. You know the hands, like I said, the abuse you name kill ourselves. We've tried it. We've suffered. You know the hands, like I said, the abuse you, you name it. We've lived it and that's why we started it. You know, and along this journey, you know, mr anthony here was a guest on our show a couple times who has now become a permanent co-host because he's just one amazing dude and we love him and he's just made the show so much better and uh, um.

Speaker 1: 3:34

But I've also, you know, part of the show is is um. You know doing what you say you're gonna do. You know leveling up, like we always talk about. You know taking accountability and and in that I've also come to the conclusion of my own self-reflection lately that you know I'm trying to do all these positive things in life but I'm spreading myself too thin, you know. And I've started building all these positive things in life, but I'm spreading myself too thin. And I've started building all these massive bridges but I'm not finishing them. And I think I have to refocus and reassess not so much what's important it is important because all of this is important, that doesn't change but what's going to benefit me today, going forward in the near future. And, that being said, a part of that is upon talking with my co-hosts, who have made it a lot easier and understanding is that I have to take accountability and do the things that I preach Right and knowing where I need to make changes in my life. And it's not bad. But I have to refocus and, that being said, I've made the decision to step away from the show for a while, so this will be my last episode for a while. You know, it's not forever, but until further notice.

Speaker 1: 5:13

I really got to dial in and refocus because I'm basically driving myself into the ground, as some of us do, and I'm just spread too thin. Myself into the ground and as some of us do, and I'm just spread too thin. So I had to make that decision to to uh step down and let these boys, you know, roll ahead for a little while. And uh, it's not easy, man, it's definitely not.

Speaker 1: 5:39

I mean, this is a huge part of my life, it's a huge part of you boys lives to have amazing guests that especially like the one we're about to introduce in a few minutes, you know, and the people that we've touched like I said, me and eric started this trying to save one person, but I think we've saved four people's lives from suicide. We've had numerous that we know of. We've had numerous emails and from females even, like huge female listeners that we weren't expecting, and it's just a true blessing to even you know from where we started to where we are. Like I said, we're in 13 countries and you know, and it's, it's an amazing feeling, but I also had to make the decision to step back, and for a little while.

Speaker 1: 6:30

So, that being said is I just want to thank everyone and, like, raw minds is never going away. I know these boys won't let that happen. I'm not going to let that happen, but sometimes, you know, like I said, part of giving advice is also taking the advice that I give, and I have to take the accountability in that, in my choices in my life, and do what I say I'm going to do and do what I suggest that people do and be authentic and stand behind that and be authentic and stand behind that. And a part of that is to take a step back, refocus in the things that I'm doing in my life and then go and revisit it.

Speaker 3: 7:14

If anything, man. We're proud of you, brother, we are.

Speaker 2: 7:20

Dude, I wouldn't have it any other way. Man, I know it's not on me to take the weight of it, but like, if, if this was holding you back and you didn't take that fucking opportunity, man, like there's a part of me that would feel some form of guilt, because, like we're, we're all, like we all preach it, man, like we're all about people bettering themselves and being successful, we don't wish ill will on fucking anybody, especially this brotherhood that we have on this screen right now. You know, man, like I will do anything in my power to help you succeed. And if that means we got to double down on the work on our end, man, fucking doubling down, no questions asked.

Speaker 2: 7:59

Man, this thing, this thing, was built from the ground up with you too, and I'm eternally grateful for that. And I'm eternally grateful for the times that you, specifically, like I've gone through some shit in the past and like you've, you've dragged me out. You've dragged me onto this fucking show on episodes that I didn't want to be a part of before. I was a co-host and you dragged me on, like you are to me, man, man, you are an inspiration and you are raw minds. So I love you, brother. I'm super grateful and I'm super fucking proud of you for for making the decision you're making for yourself, and I'll speak for myself and say that I've got you 100, no matter what you need, anytime, man, thank you man appreciate it, and that goes for me too.

Speaker 3: 8:47

Man, you know, we live 15 minutes away from each other, so we'll still be seeing each other, and I love you and respect you. And this is the decision that you need to make in order for your life to grow, man. And I mean, what kind of person would I be to try to hold someone back from growing? Man, you know. I want everybody around me to make money and grow and be successful.

Speaker 1: 9:08

You know and you know, and that's the thing is like we talked about it last week about success and what each person's uh definition of freedom is. You know, and that really hit home with me, and I know we talk about it all the time and I know things that they're there, but after that episode I'm like what is my definition? What is it that I truly want? I want to spread my hands and feel no walls and in order to do that, you know as much as we're not about money, it's about, but it plays a big part on getting to that freedom to give, to make things easier. Whether we like it or not, I've never been driven by money or greed. I'm not. I'm the most, you know, easygoing help, anybody kind of guy. But I also, if you want to get to these levels of freedom is it's going to take hard work, growing businesses, you know, not just a nine to five and do all this extra. So that's why I have to take a step back and do and and sacrifice and and it's probably the most mature decision I think I've ever made actually being like yo, man, you really gotta just refocus. I'm like, hey, finish building that bridge now. You really got to just refocus. I'm like, hey, finish building that bridge, now you can go to the finish, the next bridge, and so on, not trying to build four bridges at once and then standing on big open gaps that I can't cross, and that's what's happening, and I just keep hitting walls, and I'm doing it to myself. So that's the accountability I need to take and, like anybody listening has to take is you got to really dial in your life? If you want to get to where you want to get to, you have to make short-term sacrifices for long-term gains. Right, you have to be able to say no to going out. You have to be able to, you know, stay in while everyone else is partying if that's what they're doing and dial in and get up fucking two hours before anybody else if it's that important, you're going to put in that effort and you're going to grind and in that is the sacrifices that you got to make in your life to get to these points of your life. Otherwise, it's easy to sit back like, oh, one day I'll get that and one day I'm going to buy that, and, but you'll never achieve it, because where's the work and the sacrifices you're making to get there? There is none, and most people are like that, and that is one person saying that I am not. And if that means I got to sit here in a fucking dark room by myself day in and day out for the next three months, six months, that's what I got to do, man, and the biggest sacrifice was stepping away from this show and it's not easy, because this is like my therapy too, and to sit and talk with you boys every week is something I look forward to every week.

Speaker 1: 11:54

But, at the same time, these sacrifices that whether it's mine or what I'm doing or what you guys listening do is in order to get to where you got to go, is you have to make these sacrifices, whether it's easy or not, and that could even mean getting rid of the relationship you're in. That could mean getting getting rid of away from the person you're dating because it's too toxic, and that's exactly what we're talking about tonight. Right, it's toxic relationships and the damages that it causes you and how that holds you back in your life, right. And then the negative people we talk about all the time the bad apple effect, all these things, right. So it's the sacrifices we make, man, in our life, that it's all about you and what you want in your life, because everybody everybody has their own definition of freedom and happiness or what they think that they want.

Speaker 1: 12:49

But most people will never get to that and live in a state of constant depression because they just make excuses and blame the world. But oh, I want this one day. I'll never buy that and it's like dude. You can't live like that and I refuse to be like that. So again, I gotta look at the what I'm doing. I have to take accountability, because this is what I preach and I have to be authentic about and do with what I say that I'm gonna do. Just like I tell people and give advice, then I have to do the same, otherwise it means nothing and it's empty and it's fake. So that means this is a big sacrifice I'm taking to move forward in my life and that's what I got to do.

Speaker 3: 13:34

And we support you. Fucking right, we do.

Speaker 2: 13:37

And to our listeners. We will do our fucking best to bring the energy that Joey brings at the intro of every episode. That's going to be the hardest part. Man, I can't flip that switch like you can and just be fucking raring to go yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:53

Well, I don't know boys. You know everyone that's tuning in. As I just mentioned, we are hitting up Toxic Relationships it's a big one, and the guest that we have on tonight toxic relationships that's a big one. And the guest that we have on tonight is sitting down in the US of A. He is a full-time motivational speaker who travels the country, and Anthony's talking about energy man. This guy's energy is off the hook. We already love this guy and he hasn't even said a word. So let's bring him on and let's uh welcome, uh, mr west woodson oh man, what's up?

Speaker 4: 14:37

my brothers, my new brothers, on the internet. Um, before we get into it, I just want to say what y'all just delved into on on live, even off camera, off the live, like it's not bullshit, like this is like I can feel the brother through the freaking screen. Joey bro, I, I know this is my first episode being a part of the show, but I know you're, andrew, it's gonna be missed, but I respect, I respect, I respect what you're deciding to do. I think it takes a lot of self-awareness, it takes a lot of courage to arrive to the point of realizing you're overextending yourself and choosing yourself. Despite how you think it might hurt or might change other people's opinions about you.

Speaker 4: 15:19

I love the fact that you're choosing you and hearing that you have your brothers to support you. That's freaking amazing man. But yeah, I'm glad to be here tonight. My name is wes. I actually, yes, as joey said, I travel all around the country sharing my story about how I dealt with anxiety and escaped toxic relationships to better improve my relationship with myself, and I hope to get into it tonight with my new brothers.

Speaker 3: 15:41

I came across on tiktok hell yeah man fuck, yeah, hell yeah, but we've been excited for you. We've been talking like you can't wait, man, and the energy that you bring man, we love it. That's what we want here.

Speaker 2: 15:53

So, dude, even in our like pre-interview with you. I was fucking fired up when we got off.

Speaker 4: 16:00

Oh bro, I'm stoked man, I'm stoked, me too. My, my fiancee was in the other room and she was like yo, are you speaking to the crowd right now? I was like, nah, I was speaking to only 3 guys in Canada and we were just like so energized and it was awesome. I love it. Thank god for technology. If the camera was not, I'd probably be talking to myself right now against this brick wall.

Speaker 3: 16:22

I don't have a chance to be with all y'all virtually hell yeah brother, hell yeah man, so um, yeah, go ahead, joey no, you take it away, buddy oh, I'm just gonna say we'd like to dive deep into kind of like what you do all over the country.

Speaker 4: 16:38

First here, if we don't mind nah man of I mean the present day version of me, of a public speaker and author and traveling across the country. I hit about 25 different states in the US of A and I'm halfway there. I want to hit all 50 states. But to understand even how I got to this, I do got to go backwards, because I think hindsight is always 20-20. Even though now I talk about building healthy relationship with yourself, learning the power of self-love and self-compassion, these are things I had to learn through hardcore experience, right. So I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood, being the only black kid in my class, so you could probably imagine the things I was told at a very young age of like.

Speaker 4: 17:27

I don't talk black, I sound white, I dress a certain way, I don't look black enough. It was all these different things that damaged my self-esteem and just ruined my sense of self. If I'm being honest, and my parents, my mom, my dad, they would always tell me this thing they're always like Wes, because we live in like this, this white neighborhood, you have to work twice as hard to be considered just as good. That was something they always told me and I think as a man I kind of wanted to wear that as a badge of honor of like how much I was working. But to be honest, now that I look back on it, I was doing all of that, whether it was trying to work hard in school, whether it was trying to be the best athlete as possible. I was trying to earn the sense of being enough. And I think as a man who couldn't, or as a young boy who couldn't validate himself, I would depend on other things externally to kind of fill that void. And I think a lot of us do that, whether it's a job, whether it's relationships, whether it's even going to alcohol or drugs, and when it doesn't work, it's never enough, right, it's never enough. Whether it's sex, drugs, alcohol, blow. What do you want to do? You're trying to numb that pain.

Speaker 4: 18:42

And for me, when I got to college, man, I went on a wild, a wild kind of I don't even want to call it like a binge or, if you want, a binge, or a bender of just like going from sex to alcohol, to drugs, to experimenting with this and that.

Speaker 4: 18:57

And my junior year of college, that's when everything changed for me. That's when I found myself in a relationship, and this relationship, as a man, I was like, oh my gosh, like this is it? Like this is what I've always been chasing. I wanted the constant validation, the constant sense of feeling, wanted being told you're good enough, you're handsome enough, being pursued sexually it was all those things that men stereotypically want, only to be trapped in a toxic, abusive relationship. And it took a police officer telling me that I was in an abusive relationship for me to wake up and be like I don't deserve this, and then, from that whole point of being hospitalized, I mean there's a whole long story, brother, but I ended up taking all the things that I was learning to really try to build a better relationship with myself. And it took escaping that toxicity to come back to myself, and that's what I teach around the country did you?

Speaker 3: 19:58

did you say, yeah, sorry, would you say? It was like more like love. Bombing is what they did, more like trapping you, showing, throwing all this shit at you, first making you feel vulnerable but you know what I mean this person's safe, and then pretty much destroy you.

Speaker 4: 20:12

You know that's a great question, man, because I feel like when we think about toxic relationships, we got to go back and study and look at people who join cults like it's a. It's a cult of one. My name by that is no one wakes up and be like Like it's a cult of one. My opinion about that is no one wakes up and be like I want to join a cult. No one's going to wake up and be like I want to get into a toxic relationship. No one's going to do that.

Speaker 4: 20:31

It happens where it's slow. It's slow progression to a point where you wake up maybe a year to five years later down the line You're like yo, what have I gotten myself into? So it's a mixture of many different things. It wasn't a matter, it wasn't as if the person had a sign that said I'm toxic. It was instead of these kind of small behaviors that would build up to.

Speaker 4: 20:54

Oh my gosh, I said it to my friends oh my gosh, we're arguing almost every other day. Oh my gosh, I haven't spoken to my family in like what? Like three weeks at least, of me having an in-depth conversation or calling my mom, which I normally did every Sunday, and now I'm not really doing that at all. It's going to oh, wait, now I'm trying drugs because that person likes drugs and I'm trying to do these things to earn her validation. And it's like wait, wait, wait, wait, wes, this isn't you anymore.

Speaker 4: 21:25

I lost my best friends and it got to a point where you wake up one day and you realize you're on an island by yourself. And that's when I'm like, oh, but then it's almost too late because your X amount of months of the relationship, everyone knows you as the man who has the you know attractive girlfriend quote unquote attractive girlfriend and you don't want to leave the you know attractive girlfriend quote unquote attractive girlfriend and you don't want to leave. So you stay. It's almost like you're stuck and that's why I always call it the cult of one, because you have this sense of you're in this place where you never thought you would ever be, and it takes what I would call the hand of God to pull you out of it. And that's what happened to me.

Speaker 1: 22:04

I got a question. I got a question for you, wes, of course, bro. Now let's rewind when you first met that girl that you were in that toxic relationship with.

Speaker 4: 22:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:17

Where was right when you met her? Where do you think you were mentally and where you were in your life?

Speaker 4: 22:23

Bro, I was that's a great question, man. My junior year of college I was in a very low place because I had my first relationship ever in my life, my first love when I was 18. And that relationship had kind of hit the shitter beginning of my sophomore year of college. So from the sophomore year to the beginning of junior year, I went through this bend of like when I lost my first love. I was trying to find a sense of feeling something. I think heartbreak is a very painful thing to go through, but and that's what I was dealing with I was dealing with a broken heart and I would try all these different things like hookup, culture, dating apps, drinking, smoking. I was really trying to feel something. So that's where my state of mind was when I met this person.

Speaker 4: 23:17

I met this person because obviously I went to a very smaller school and everyone knew everybody. It was essentially a big high school, if I'm being real. And I saw this person. She looked attractive, definitely looked pursuable and I'm not going to lie, I pursued her, right. I didn't, I, she didn't fall into my lap. I pursued her and I thought it was going to be the best thing ever and it was in the beginning, right I think when I, even though I was in therapy, my therapist would see some red flags in the beginning, right I?

Speaker 4: 23:44

I think when I, even though I was in therapy, my therapist would see some red flags in the beginning. But bra was so in it where I was like, oh, you don't, you don't know her like I do like, and, and that was the thing whenever someone would come around. But yo west, you don't play basketball anymore. Like, you're always in her room. Like you, you don't have a sense of individuality anymore. Like, where are you? I would get defensive and I'm like, nah, you don't have a sense of individuality anymore. Where are you? I would get defensive and I'm like, no, you don't understand, I know her, you don't.

Speaker 4: 24:10

And that's another piece of advice I always give students If they have a friend who they think is in a toxic, abusive relationship, never say like, oh, they're the problem, or you're not doing, I don't know you anymore. That's not really helpful. Problem, or you're not doing I don't know you anymore. That's not really helpful. Trying to remind that person of who they were before the relationship and trying to be that progressive like, hey, I'm always going to be here for you. That's helpful. But in the past in college, I felt judged and I felt like I had to defend what I was in, and that's kind of what added to the toxicity itself.

Speaker 1: 24:52

Go ahead, joey, sorry. The reason I asked that question is you know, and a lot of people out there and all these toxic relationships is when I asked why or how, where you were at at the time that you met her is you know you don't attract what you want, you attract who. You are right.

Speaker 1: 25:07

So there was a lot that you didn't deal with yet in your past yeah that brought her into your life, because if she was the way she was doesn't mean you're the exact same where one's you know abusive or a cheater, but you're still damaged in some way 100 and so was she already before you even met her and you, or when you met her and you guys were both just as damaged in different levels of your life that neither one of you fixed or worked on before getting into that relationship.

Speaker 1: 25:40

So you guys were like emotional paramedics for each other in the beginning. You know what I mean. So it was great because it's healing the wounds that I've disregarded or refused to deal with and push them down.

Speaker 4: 25:55

So you attracted that toxicity right and just like a lot of people, right is?

Speaker 1: 26:01

you see, a lot of people that, oh, I've been in these abusive relationships, I've been this and that, but in reality, it's your fault in a sense, because, sure, you're not the type that cheated or the one that was the abuser, but it's your fault that you let it get to that point, because I guarantee you, in all these toxic relationships you look at the beginning there is a lot of red flags you were colorblind to, or there was a lot of, you know, situations that you overlooked where you should have been caught it right there, knowing that you're like, but then we try to judge Because of our lack of self-confidence and self-worth. Is you like? Oh, but he was such a nice guy when we did this. And then you overlooked this shit and we overlooked that with her and we overlooked that with him, right? Because our self-worth and our self-confidence is much lower and you don't want to feel like. You want to lose that person and be alone.

Speaker 4: 27:07

So you drag it out and now it becomes your fault because you allowed it, bro, I couldn't have said that any better because I learned and that is a hot take, right, we call that a hot take that would be classified as a controversial opinion on the stance of, or talking about toxic relationships. Because sometimes, when you are in that sense of I don't want to call it victimization, but when you are called like a victim of domestic violence or a victim of assault, or when you escape your abuser, you do have this sense of oh, they did this to me. But the question is like OK, what did I attract? Where is that level of responsibility? And when I was in the hospital because I was hospitalized for suicidiation, I had thoughts of hurting myself and it felt like for me having all these thoughts and all these very dangerous suicidal thoughts and getting help in the hospital, I finally learned better ways to talk about these things and one of the things I learned was radical acceptance, so it's the understanding that it's not necessarily your fault what happened to you. I didn't want her to hit me or assault me, but it's my responsibility of what happens next. And that was the shift I had to make in my mind. And it's been wild because when you were talking, joey, I had this thought process. I was like you mentioned. We attract these things because we don't have a sense of self-worth or self-confidence, and this metaphor just popped in my head. I love it, I'm going to share with y'all.

Speaker 4: 28:40

It's almost like we see ourselves as like gas stations. There's no dress code required, there's no standard for required to go to a gas station. You can go in there and shit on the walls and there won't be a problem. You can leave. You know what I mean, but you wouldn't do that at a five-star restaurant, like you wouldn't. There's a standard, there's a dress code, there's things that are allowed and things that are not allowed. You probably won Don't cuss up a storm at a five-star steakhouse, but you can cuss all you want. Like I said, you can do anything you want in a gas station bathroom and sometimes our standards reflect that. We have the standards of a gas station bathroom when we need the standards of a five-star restaurant, and that's what I try to teach people too.

Speaker 2: 29:21

I like that 100%. I can relate a lot to that situation. You know, what's fucked up is like my last relationship. I did a lot of therapy and it was essentially the exact same thing as you. I didn't deal with physical abuse or anything, but there was. I can relate to that sense of like, almost like persuading outside people that this person is a good person.

Speaker 2: 29:46

But then in the end, like doing therapy and stuff, like I remember talking with my therapist and being like I don't even know who I am anymore because I had lost my entire identity in this person. Right, and the way she had kind of explained it to me, is like when you are with someone, you just kind of intrinsically pick up on their. So an easy example would be like if your fiance watches, like watch the office, when you guys got together and you never watched it and then you guys started watching it together and now you guys say quotes from the office, right, like you are essentially taking on a part of this person's identity and you're not removing a part of yourself but you're taking on their identity. So what I had done in my last relationship it was I had taken on a lot of of her identity and I had lost who I was. And it was like you said about the validation man. And I had a fucking experience at the end of last week because, like this is like almost, almost eight months ago, but like I had a situation last week where I had this wild well up of feelings and this is why I was super excited about this episode tonight this wild well up of feelings, and it was stuff that I thought I had I had like worked through and I've worked through some of it, don't get me wrong. But it was like the best way I can describe it is like it felt like I was drowning.

Speaker 2: 31:06

And there's these things that I commonly reach for. I'm in recovery, so I'm sober, so drugs and alcohol aren't a thing that I reach for anymore. But there's like typical things for me are like try to find a different job, because that'll make me feel like enough, because like I want to do something different with my life. Maybe if I reach out to this girl, she's going to say something nice about me or tell me that I'm attractive. Like typically, I reach for these common things and it was just like a moment of like nope, we're not doing that anymore. Like we're, and I talked to my sponsor on the phone today about it and he's like man, like that's healing in and of itself, like you're acknowledging these, these things that you do. So it was like this feeling of drowning and it was just like my brain's going to all these places. Reach out to this girl, reach out to that girl Like, talk to your, talk to your work about getting a raise, get on Indeed, try to find a new job. Like, do all this shit to try to make me feel, in this moment, validated. And it's like man, like it doesn't matter what anybody says or what I do. The only way I'm going to get that is from inside.

Speaker 2: 32:06

So I had I think it was thursday and like man, I was like there was so much pent-up emotion and I knew I had to fucking cry and I just like I went for a drive and I put on this music and I was literally like because my therapist is big on self-compassion too, and I was good at it for a while and then I kind of fell off of it. So I was like like because my therapist is big on self-compassion too, and I was good at it for a while and then I kind of fell off of it. So I was like I was in my car and I was literally talking outside, like out loud to myself. I was like man, like it's okay, like there's nobody here, like you're safe, you're safe here with you, you don't need anybody else. Like just let it go, just let it go.

Speaker 2: 32:47

And, man, the fucking walls that I could feel inside that I was trying to break through, like I was yelling at myself. I'm like just stop. Like let it go, like you're good man, like you're safe. And finally I just fucking let it go. And I'm just like driving down the road back, fucking country roads, all my eyes out in the dark, just listening to the status music. But it was just like when I was done, I just said to myself I'm like see, like nothing bad happened, this is what you needed. But I like in that moment I acknowledge like how fucking heavy duty it like it is, like the walls that we put up to protect ourselves. But like what we don't realize that we're doing is we're making it harder on ourselves to learn how to love ourselves, because, like we're so afraid of the outside world but we want the answers from the outside world, but it's like you got to get inside man like, no matter what it takes man it was just your shoulders just dropped a.

Speaker 2: 33:39

After that all happened, dude like it was the crate, like, but it took like a lot of fucking work, man, like it took a lot of like bargaining with myself, like basically patting myself on the back, telling myself it's going to be okay, being like, come on, man, just fucking let it go. Like, let it down, like you know, this is what you need, just let it happen. And finally, just like thinking about stuff, and it's just like I could feel my body. I could feel my body, I could feel my shoulders drop, I could feel the walls come down and it's like okay, this is what you want, this is what you're gonna get. And I just fucking let it out. Wow, and it was just like, but man, like, yeah, like, self-love is fucking hard, self-compassion is fucking hard, like it's not an easy thing.

Speaker 3: 34:23

Well, I want to touch on something you said there. It kind of interested me. So you know when, like you said, how you, we absorb pretty much like that person watching the office and you guys watch it, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 4: 34:36

Yeah, I wonder if you've had all these like toxic relationships through your life, that you've absorbed a little bit from each of one of these and they actually become part of you and then you bring that to your next relationship, that's interesting no, no, go for it man because, eric, what you're describing man, like, a lot of the work that I'm doing because, to your point, anthony, my therapist is huge on self-compassion and self-love, but a lot of that, the lens that she looks at it through and which I love, is, um, the inner child, right? Oh yeah, so my, my full name is wesley. I go by west because it's just easier and it sounds better, but, uh, west is my nickname, but like there's west, as like who I am today, how I present myself in public and my fiance has helped me understand this model too that I'm going to get into in a second but there's Wes and there's Wesley, right, wesley is like that younger version of me, and with him he grew up seeing toxic relationships everywhere. Right, I never actually saw a healthy relationship model for me, so I grew up thinking that that was normal. I grew up thinking police coming to your door, to your house, to break up fights between mom and dad was normal. I grew up thinking that slam doors, broken glasses, yelling at each other was normal.

Speaker 4: 36:00

So when I got into a relationship that was mirroring of what my parents were like, I didn't leave because I'm like this, this is what it's supposed to be like. That's why it was when the officer told me that I was in a toxic relationship. It's like I couldn't. I didn't know that it was hard for me to actually put two and two together of like I don't deserve this and it was a part of my lack of self-worth and self-compassion and having higher standards for myself. But it's what I was used to.

Speaker 4: 36:29

So to your point, eric, I agree with you a hundred percent that growing up there was definitely a part of me that when I actually got into a healthy relationship now I'm going on almost four months being engaged and I never thought I would ever get here because I didn't think my parents got divorced when I was 12. Thank goodness. It was a very toxic relationship. But now, being in a healthy relationship, I would bring the toxicity I was used to into here, because my nervous system was too used to disruption and chaos that when I experienced normal healthiness, I'm like am I bored? Am I settling?

Speaker 2: 37:10

I was going to ask you if you found it boring. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 37:15

So it was wild and I told my therapist this and she drew out a map for me. She was like describe your relationship with Katie. That's my fiance and I was like we argue, do you? That's my fiance and I was like we argue, do you argue every day? No, once a week, probably not. Maybe twice a month, maybe now it's like once a month. To be honest, I'm grateful yeah but, like before, we were arguing every single day, it was. The graph was like this and I was used to that.

Speaker 4: 37:41

I was used to that. And she said west, you're in a healthy relationship, but you're so used to being in unhealthy relationships that you won't give yourself permission to understand something new and welcome something new. So that was the whole cycle that I had to even step out and be like, oh shit, I'm really doing this to myself see well I went through that.

Speaker 1: 38:00

Oh sorry, go ahead joy no, I was just gonna say to add to that is, you know, like with these people, with everyone that goes through toxic relationship after toxic relationship, is when you're born in a burning house. You think the whole world's on fire. Yeah, right, right. So you know, and I've looked at some of my friends and even girls I've dated away in the past. That's gone from one toxic to the next.

Speaker 1: 38:25

And the guy that beat her up, and then the guy that cheats and this, and you and you and, but yet their life is so together outside of those relationships great job, great career, owns a house, this, this and then yet they're dating these fucking losers over and over, and it never really registered and I never understood it. And even guys going back to toxic women, like it's both ways, but it's um, I never really understood it. But you know, I mentioned this before on one of the episodes, I read a book not too, you know, two years ago, I think and um, in the book it states how you know, especially the women that go back to these relationships because they're comfortable that that's all they know. Now everyone on the planet knows cheating's wrong. Abuse is definitely your piece of shit if you smack women or anybody around. Everyone knows that and nobody wants them. But the people that go back to this is because they're comfortable. That's what they know.

Speaker 1: 39:22

It's predictable for them, and it's predictable for them and as much as every single girl will be like I just want a nice guy and this. And then when they get it, they get really uncomfortable. And then they self sabotage it and then, like I was even one of those guys once where I'm just like man, I've been super polite, I've been faithful, I've taken her out I'm like I don't understand what did I do. But in reality, once you understand it is you actually didn't do anything. They self-sabotage it in their own mind because now it's uncomfortable for them. Now they're freaked out like I'm not used to this shit, right, and that's why they back off.

Speaker 1: 39:59

And then, but at the same time, then people like us, we get hurt because we're like I don't understand what, and even like some of the girls, like I've seen super sweet, as girls are destroyed by a guy because he self-sabotaged it, because he's so used to the toxicity of the, the females and the crazy ones that he used to date, and now he's got a good girl and then she's heartbroken because he's self-sabotaged and vice versa, because you just live in this comfortability, whether you know it's right or not, but that's just what you're used to and, like I said, you're born in that burning house so you just think everything else is on fire and that's just normal to you and that's why it's so hard to get these people to get out of these toxic relationships, because that's all they're used to.

Speaker 1: 40:43

But again it goes back to what I said is, the reason you keep also getting into them is because you have no self-esteem, you have no self-confidence, you have no self-worth and you keep attracting the same ones over, because most people will monkey branch and go to the next one and the next one, but and blaming the one before like it was his fault and not taking accountability.

Speaker 1: 41:05

And now you're bleeding on the next person that didn't cut you and so on, and you're just dragging in and that's why your relationships keep failing and that's why you keep attracting the same guys that smack you around or cheat or whatever. Vice versa, and it's a revolving door. And even when you're like, oh well, this one's different, and then yeah, well, I guarantee you in six months that relationship is over.

Speaker 1: 41:27

Give it six months a year, 100%, it's over, because you never did any work and found that self-compassion, that self-love. And until you do and like in your case, wes, like you said is, you went through these relationships, were in the hospital, the suicide, you know drugs and now you got to a point where you started seeing the therapy, you start doing the work on yourself and the reason why you're in an engagement now with a good girl is because you rebuilt your self-worth and your self-esteem and your, and that's what you attracted.

Speaker 1: 42:04

That's the only reason, because if you didn't do that work and you just kept going the path, there's no way you would be engaged right now. You would be in another toxic relationship and another failed relationship.

Speaker 4: 42:15

Yes, Hands down, hands down. And I I thank God for my partner, katie's the best, because she was so patient with me even when so even to your point, joey, of doing the work, right, the thing about self-love and I was to say it's not an achievement, it's a, it's a continual, constant process and practice, right Like Anthony, to your point of like driving on that long drive and you put on that song to go on that long drive and you put on that song. You have to constantly and consciously and intentionally do the work to break down those walls, absolutely, because it's almost like you have spent the last, the first half of your life. For me it's.

Speaker 4: 42:56

I'm 26 years old, so up until two years ago, so for the last 24 years of my life I I have been so used to being not safe, just unsafe, like unsafe in my own surroundings. I don't like loud noises, I don't like slam doors. They're very triggering for me. So I have learned all of these triggers that I have. But I'm 26 now, but I spent so long being so afraid of these things that when I got into a healthy relationship I was still bringing that toxicity to the relationship, despite doing some work. And Katie was so patient with me. So that's another thing I want to give to the viewers or listeners is the fact that when you can find that person who is patient with you because you will still have moments where you I don't want to call it relapse, but you still have moments where you kind of want to go back, you want to go back to what you were there's a term.

Speaker 2: 43:54

Yeah, there's a term in recovery. It's called an emotional relapse. Before you actually relapse, it's an emotional relapse. You revert to old behaviors and old thinking to send you back to where you were.

Speaker 4: 44:03

So, yeah, I would call that an emotional relapse sabotaged my relationship last year because we've been together for four years now going I mean yeah, going on four years this past month- and I saw sabotage here.

Speaker 4: 44:25

Thank you, I appreciate that. And what happened was when I was younger. You know I'm 26 years old. Like I said, when I was younger there was a lot of sexual abuse that happened when I was a kid. There was a lot of sexual abuse that happened when I was a kid and that had really made me question my identity as a man and nevermind as heterosexual. So I'm not sure you ever heard of this term called trauma reenacting. But sometimes you can have a sense where, to your point, joey about you might be in this pattern where you're constantly being in with partners who are slapping you around because that's what you're used to and maybe that happens to you when you were a kid. So for me, whenever I would have these challenges with my own kind of feeling inferior or not wanted enough, I would do these things being emotionally unfaithful in my relationships, and I felt like with Katie it was too perfect. It felt like that I wanted to smudge. I couldn't. I didn't feel like I deserved it.

Speaker 4: 45:24

So, I had emotional relapse and I was emotionally unfaithful and I remember for me I came clean. I came clean, I told her everything and we went to couples therapy and for the last year we have been doing so much work, both on the relationship, because another thing people don't talk about either is when you escape a toxic relationship and you kind of find yourself in a healthy relationship. It takes work. It takes work and we are doing the hard work. Now I'm showing this girl all of my scars and being vulnerable, which is is not. I'm not used to that and it's been quite literally the wildest thing I have ever experienced in my life.

Speaker 3: 46:03

And the trust too right that grows trust like massive, you showing that.

Speaker 2: 46:08

I was going to say, like that's how you build a fucking connection.

Speaker 2: 46:11

Like people think that this like, like good relationships are just like you meet the person you know and then everything's fucking sunshine and unicorn piss. No, like the best way to build that connection is exactly how you're doing it, like lay it all out on the table, but make sure that you know it's a safe place to do so. Because I've been in situations where I'm pretty like fuck man, look at what we're doing right now. Like I'm pretty open about my, my past and I'm pretty fucking vulnerable. I don't have an issue with that, probably to a fault sometimes and there's been times where I've shared certain things with people in a relationship and then those things are weaponized against me from my past. But I shared it in confidence, in a safe place, but then it was used in a not safe way and it's's like oh well, I'm not going to fucking tell anybody that anymore. Yeah, I mean so. Like that's. That's huge man. Like I commend you both for for being able to do that that's that's a hard situation to Anthony.

Speaker 3: 47:09

You know like you open up, you be vulnerable. You tell these these things.

Speaker 3: 47:19

Just it to the person that you love that you, you trust, and then they go around and use that against you yeah, weapon, you know, and that, yeah, exactly, and that's it's. It's. It happens all the time and it really messes men and women, whoever deal with it, because then you go on to your next relationship and you got a beautiful person that actually cares about you, you know, and now you're, you're holding back because you got these big walls that you don't want to that, that you want to keep up because you're scared of getting hurt. But you know you got a good woman. That person is going to help you break down those walls.

Speaker 4: 47:49

Yeah, if she's going to arrive for you, she's going to arrive for you. The framework that I teach students too, is identifying a safe person. Right, I actually made the word safe and accurate. So, s? Are they supportive, right? Are they? Do they use supportive language? Do you have a history of them being supportive? Do you have other pieces of evidence where, in situations that they have shown up for you and really have never made you question their sense of loyalty to you? And then A? Are they accessible? Accessible? Do you have access to them? Are they within arm's reach, a phone call, a 15-minute car drive like you and Eric and Joey? Are they able to be accessible? F do they use free of judgmental language?

Speaker 4: 48:31

I remember for me, when I tried to be vulnerable with my past in the toxic relationship, she would be like I hate that you go to therapy. And I was like why? And? And I was like because every time you come back from therapy you feel like a new person. And I'm like ain't that the freaking point? Like you're supposed to make these, these connections and grow as a person, but that person wasn't being a judgment-free space.

Speaker 4: 48:53

And then e are they encouraging, right? Are they encouraging? Are they? Do they try to lift you up and encourage you towards your potential, instead of trying to degrade you and use things against you and weaponize what you say in the privacy of your conversations and they try to use it against you as ammo and argument. That's not a safe person. So really trying to help people identify who is even a safe person to talk to, because sometimes it's not your mom and dad, sometimes it's not your partner and sometimes you want to get religious and spiritual, it's not your prep, your pastor or priest. So who can, who can be a safe person? Sometimes there are sheep or there's wolves dressed in sheep clothing.

Speaker 2: 49:30

I say 100, you know it's funny about the therapy thing you said about how they would like weaponize that against you. Mine was the complete opposite. If I wasn't, I was being constantly asked when's your next therapy session, like why didn't you go to therapy today? So my sanity was basically put in question. If I wasn't in therapy like my sanity in the relationship was contingent on me being in therapy it was like wild, like deep-rooted, gaslighting shit. I was like I and I learned it in therapy and my therapist was like you got to get the fuck out and I was just like but they're such a nice person they're like?

Speaker 4: 50:03

no, they're not, it's like holy fuck, yeah, they're not, they're not man yeah thank you for your therapist man to give you that sign.

Speaker 3: 50:10

Yeah yeah, definitely. Yeah, I find too at like a lot of people when, when people hold things over people's heads, you know you go off and you do something. That's another thing that that like for me, um, that's affected my life big time. You know, I've I've done a lot of things for people and they've held it over my head and now I'm at the point where I feel uncomfortable receiving gifts and you know like I still find giving, giving things away, but I mean, when I'm receiving stuff, it's just I don't like receiving it anymore because I've had so much of stuff being held over my head. That is that it affects me, cause it's always in my oh, are they going to want that back, are they going to take this back? Or, you know it's always been in my mind until I met my last my fiance that passed away. You know it's always been in my mind until I met my last my fiance that passed away.

Speaker 3: 50:59

You know, like I've had toxic relationships my whole life and a good portion of it was my own self, because I had hard times growing up. I grew up with my mom, I hung out with gangsters, you know I didn't see how to treat women or all this stuff. It's just the toxic. I just had very toxic masculine masculinity I can't even say it like growing up, yeah. And then, you know, I grew up going through these relationships but, like I said, like took a bit of that through me and then when I met my last, my fiance, that passed away she, jules, she changed that all about me and that's what we were talking about.

Speaker 3: 51:39

After, like you know, you met, you met this person that that helped make you vulnerable and go through that, and that's what she did for me, because I was in a whole flight or fight mode. My whole life was fight or flight since I was a kid, that's all. And my body was just exhausted. You know, you're just so tired all the time because you're always running or fighting, you know. And she brought me to the safe space where I didn't have to have that part of me drive, drive, my, my, my body. You know I could actually take over and, and you know, feel the feelings and know that I was in the safe space. So so I can really relate to you for what you went through.

Speaker 4: 52:23

No, I was going to say Eric, but first I'll thank you for sharing that. I always appreciate when people are vulnerable with me, so all of you, thank you for sharing different parts of your story.

Speaker 2: 52:31

Fucking raw minds, baby. I love it.

Speaker 4: 52:37

I was going to say when you were sharing a bit of your story, eric, like again my mind how it works is, I think, visually so when, like you were talking about, you've always been in like fight or flight mode and when you met Jules you kind of slowed down and all your walls came down. It kind of feels, when you can meet that person where your inner child feels safe coming out, that that is a that's a different person, when you find that it's a blessing um, well, the thing with her, too, is like I moved in with her.

Speaker 3: 53:08

I, I lived in lots of houses. I lived with girlfriends before, I lived by myself, but it wasn't a home. You know, it never felt like a home. And then when I moved in with her, you know, uh, it just it felt right, it felt like a home. I felt like I, I belonged in a sense, you know like, and, yeah, like I like I belong, this is where I was supposed to be. This is a house, this is love.

Speaker 4: 53:33

Like they're, like the walls were filled with love, yeah, and I feel like that's that's so beautiful, because that's what I try to help people do for themselves, is how we help people feel at home internally right, because a lot of those years of you kind of saying like you were constantly in fight or flight or constantly on the run it's almost like people who have anxiety myself, uh, we, we tend to be constantly on the move go, go, go, go go, because the faster we are, no one can catch us. And if no one can catch us, safe, right, but that's not sustainable because you're going to get exhausted, like you're going to feel exhausted. So if you can have a place where you can just kind of come and rest your shoulders, like that is that is, that's that's worth everything but I was puking every morning I'd wake up to go to work.

Speaker 3: 54:28

Before I'd wake up first thing in the morning I'd run to the bathroom and I was puking blood out just because of stress and anxiety. It was. It was like blood clots and everything was crazy. I went got a gastro um didn't have an ulcer. It was just because I'm puking so much. It's just peeling, peeling layers off of my esophagus?

Speaker 3: 54:48

yeah, it was just it was insane. But uh, moving in with her, eventually, that that slowly stopped. And now, now to this day, I haven't. I haven't puked in the morning blood in a long, long time.

Speaker 2: 55:00

Oh man, yeah, so it's crazy I feel like there's another part to the anxiety aspect of it too, and this may just be me, and if it's not you, then like I get it.

Speaker 2: 55:10

But do you find, with the anxiety too west, like like the, the moving very fast?

Speaker 2: 55:15

I I can relate to that, but do you also feel like, when it comes to the self-sabotage or the like, you can't catch me, like you put yourself in positions almost as a sense of control, like even though cause, like in my last relationship I had a very hard time perceiving myself as a victim because, like you know, like I've learned a lot of stuff in recovery and like I've done a lot of inner work, and it's like no accountability, 100 like this is me.

Speaker 2: 55:43

So when I was talking with my therapist and she's like no, like this is what this person did, it's like yeah, no, but like I put myself there, she's like I don't care if you put yourself there, like there's still an aspect of you were in a position where, like things were done to you that shouldn't have been done to you, yeah, but like I feel like there's a part where it's like within the anxiety and like running from a bunch of things, like it's also a sense of control. You know, it's like like 100. If anybody's gonna fucking burn this house down, it's gonna be me, because it's my house. You know, like I was, I was that way. It's like a sense of control and I that's what I did with drugs and alcohol. It's like if anybody's going to burn my life to the ground, it's going to be fucking me.

Speaker 4: 56:22

I feel like there's a sense of control there too. I agree, I think it's a defense mechanism. It's almost the same logic of you can't fire me if I quit you know what.

Speaker 4: 56:33

I mean, and you're putting on this armor that protects you from ever getting a sense of piercing in the chest because you want to be on this bold image. I think a lot of men do this right. It's where that toxic masculinity comes in, that of us trying to be in this kind of macho mood all the time. We can't be hurt. You know that didn't happen to me.

Speaker 3: 56:53

Or syndrome it's called Latt syndrome, where they hold their arm like this I noticed.

Speaker 4: 57:07

That's how I visually see it in my head, but the reality is when you can kind of take that armor off and be okay with showing your scars, like be okay with that, because I I relate to you, anthony, where, when I had to, I'm going through this now actively, like I have therapy tomorrow. We're doing EMDR right. So we're really doing reprocessing of my past, because there was a lot of things in my past that I just want to compartmentalize and not go back to.

Speaker 2: 57:30

We just had a guest on who talked about EMDR too, Laverne, three weeks ago. Look at that.

Speaker 4: 57:35

Look at that. So I'm in the early stage of it. We haven't gone in depth, but I'm in the, like the pre stage of it where we're trying to basically build like a baseline. And for me, with this baseline that we're building, it's helping me understand that to your point.

Speaker 4: 57:51

Anthony, there was a lot of things that I just kept in a room and I had the key and I locked it and I made sure no one even knew the room existed you know, and now with EMDR, it's not only opening that door, but it's maybe even sharing the key with Katie, my fiance, and sharing the key with my therapist, or in getting to a point where there is no more door.

Speaker 4: 58:18

There is no more doing it. There is no more, it just exists, because that's when we can get to this sense of mindfulness and like objectively observing our experience instead of trying to internalize this whole thing. But I'm all for it. That's the path I'm on. That's the path that each and every one of us are on.

Speaker 3: 58:35

Yeah, it's going to be tough, definitely opening up those doors and going through that, but I mean it's, it needs to happen. I mean, laverne buddy, the guy killed it, man, he's, he's doing amazing, he's, I think, listening right now. You know it's. I I'm excited actually for you, if anything, man, I'm proud of you going through this experience and I I'm excited for you, man.

Speaker 4: 58:56

So thank you, man, I'm I'm elated myself. I can't wait because, like it's only going to change how my kids deal with their own challenges, right when they can see me loving their mom, because I'm a firm believer that you can't fully love someone else and you have no sense of love for yourself.

Speaker 3: 59:16

You're poor for yourself, dumb Yep.

Speaker 4: 59:23

Yep.

Speaker 3: 59:36

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4: 59:40

Done, yep, yep yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:00:03

Exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:00:05

Mm-hmm, oh, 100.

Speaker 3: 1:00:26

Yeah, yeah, 100 I just actually had a conversation with ed about this today because I called him, uh, and he's going to be a guest coming up here in a further show, um, and he was just talking about that and he was just going through that. Actually, right now he's going to go talk to his doctor about um, trying to navigate through all this right now.

Speaker 2: 1:00:53

So, yeah, so it's pretty, pretty, pretty powerful stuff, man the best the best experience I have to relate to that statement, joey, is like look at, so my daughter's nine. I've been sober for three years. So before I got sober, my daughter was six. She's going to remember me in active addiction. I wasn't a very nice person, I was a very angry person and I wasn't home very much.

Speaker 2: 1:01:17

And I had this conversation with their their mother and we had disagreements because we have different perspectives Right, and I respect her perspective. I don't necessarily agree with it, but the thing that gives me like the most fucking piece man is I. I do meetings. I'm a part of a 12 step program. Part of that 12 step program is going to meetings. I have a meeting that I go to every friday night and my fucking kids love coming with me. There's a lot of stuff that's said in that meeting pertaining to drugs and alcohol, but they're not actively a part of the meeting. Like they have their ipads, they're fucking around in the back. They're just there.

Speaker 2: 1:01:51

The thing that gives me peace is I'm not going to control my kids and tell my kids what to do and what not to do, because I'll tell you right now from my own experience my parents telling me that I couldn't do things made me want to do them more. Yeah, and I have a level of understanding of addiction and alcoholism now, just based off of my experience with recovery. I'm not going to force my kids or try to control my kids in any aspect, but the difference that my kids have that I didn't have is they know exactly where to fucking go If there's a problem. You know, I remember walking into these rooms alone by myself, not knowing anybody, and being fucking terrified to be in these rooms Cause I didn't know what to expect. I'd never been into meetings, I was a fucking raging coke head and I didn't. I didn't feel safe going into these rooms and you go in and everyone's so happy and I'm like these people are fucking delusional, like there's no way they're this happy.

Speaker 2: 1:02:42

But now my kids get to experience these types of meetings so that if they ever run into these types of situations in their own life they know where to go, because they've already been there and they know it's a safe place and they know these people are for fucking real, it's not some facade, They've grown up around it. Her disagreement is they're young and I just said to her like for me it's like I would have loved to be a part of this as a child, because I know people in the program who whose parents are in the program and they've been there for 35 plus years and now their children are in the program. But they grew up in there and they'll tell you like I remember coming to meetings with my mom or my dad and I remember sitting in and not understanding what people were talking about, but when I got to a point I knew exactly where I needed to go, when I needed to go there, you know. So it's like I.

Speaker 2: 1:03:25

I broke that generational I don't want to call it trauma, because it was my own like I'm the only one in my family who's kind of been down this path, but like I broke that right from the get you know, like it didn't have to suffer through generations before somebody else to fix it Like I took. I took charge of that and now my kids know that that's a safe place, that they can go, no matter what they know those people in there are safe. They've met a bunch of my friends in there, so that's how I broke generational trauma that I, that I actually created in my, my kid kids life and I first I think that's it.

Speaker 4: 1:04:00

that's fucking remarkable man, that's freaking amazing. Yeah, man, that's freaking man that you should feel very proud of yourself for that, because having that level of accountability would be like it stops with me, right, and you're going to go the other way and not only that, but to model vulnerability and reaching out for help, not only as a parent for your kids, but as a father. Like that is so powerful. Because I think, you know, vulnerability stereotypically is seen as like a feminine trait, right being like gossiping with your girlfriends or like talking about what happened that on this show, whatever what happened that on this show, whatever you. We don't really have this level of dialogue, which was why I love your show so much, because you are three men who look stereotypically like you don't want to talk about any of this stuff but here you are doing the exact opposite, which is amazing.

Speaker 4: 1:04:50

But for you, anthony, I will say, like don't I hear what you're saying about. You probably were the only one in your family who went down this path, and then there's different forms of addiction or there's different forms of that. Maybe that you that are different, but I wouldn't say it just was only you.

Speaker 2: 1:05:07

No, I agree a hundred percent and, like some of the stuff that that I, I choose not to talk about on here because there's, like certain traditions that we have to follow, but, like I, I agree wholeheartedly. Like addiction doesn't have anything to do with drugs or alcohol. The way I describe it to people is I had an issue and the issue was me and I. I searched out medicine. You know, some people can, some people can use their phone, some people can use Netflix, video games, sex, like all these things, and the best medicine that I found that fixed my problem, which was me, was cocaine. That's what I found.

Speaker 2: 1:05:39

So addiction doesn't necessarily have to do with drugs or alcohol. It can be a bunch of anything and I can. I can still do that myself, man, like I'm thinking about taking a hiatus from social media, not because anything bad's happening, but it's. It's very easy for me to fall into a doom skull and it I have things that I want to accomplish in my life, sort of like joey, but mine's not to the scale that joey's is, and I fucking respect the hell out of them for doing it. But it's like I can start with little changes and for me right now I think it's social media. It's like it's too easy for me to fall and get comfortable doing nothing right so yeah social media is going to be one thing that I remove for a while.

Speaker 2: 1:06:20

I'll still I'm going to run like our raw mind social media page, but I'm going to remove my social media to just kind of have like a dedicated positive influence. But yeah, man, like there's so like addiction, doesn't people think when they get into recovery it it's like drugs and alcohol, like no man. Addiction is a mental disease that you deal with and there's so many fucking forms of it that people don't even understand.

Speaker 4: 1:06:47

Don't know, they don't. And I think, when it comes down to fundamentally, what it means is when, when we're babies, right, when we were crying, we would either be, um, like we, we reach for our pacifier, or our parent would come and hug us, or our guardian would come and you'll hold us. And I think sometimes, when I think about it, we're always trying to chase that feeling again. You know, being nurturing, but we tend to come instead, you know. So it's like we can't, we don't know how to nurture ourselves, so let's reach for the bottle, the, the drug, whatever, man, yeah, whatever, but the scroll.

Speaker 4: 1:07:23

You know what I mean. Like I think that's where a lot of the people who I talk to like younger kids from like middle school to college that's for addiction, they do it very early on is like doom scrolling you know especially now in the states where we just had our election, um last week. So like a bunch of your feeds are either outside of the aisle, you know, I'm not sure what the political system is like we're getting them in canada too.

Speaker 4: 1:07:50

Yeah, so you see, you see it's rippling up there, but down here, man, it's like, and it gets to a point where you just have to step away, because if you don't you find yourself up for hours, and I've been guilty of this myself. I'm just scrolling because I can't sleep. Now. The real reason is, if we're as human beings, we're hardwired to avoid pain. What am I trying to avoid? What am I trying?

Speaker 3: 1:08:17

to do.

Speaker 4: 1:08:18

Why can't I fall asleep? To Joey's point. I had this kindergarten teacher. Her name was Ms Simon. Ms Simon, she always told people don't point at each other, because when you point you have three fingers pointing back at you. And I love that because it shows accountability, where a lot of people in the world do a lot of pointing like it's their fault. Uh, if he gets in the office or she gets in the office, it's gonna be, they're gonna ruin my life, da, da, da. But like, what is? Where's the level of thumbs back to yourself? Where's that level of accountability? So now, when I find myself numbing, it's like, instead of trying to be on this hamster wheel subconsciously or just being blind to what's happening, how can I become like aware and then point the thumb back at myself to take accountability?

Speaker 2: 1:09:05

Because now for my sleep stuff, bro.

Speaker 4: 1:09:07

I don't I mean excluding today, because we're on this call right now, but my like shutdown period starts at like 7.30, my time where I have no phone, I turn off the phone. Starts at like 7 30, my time where I have no phone, I turn off the phone. I maybe treat myself to like one or two shows on my netflix account and then I go home, go upstairs, wash my face, take a melatonin and I try to close my eyes, you know. And that is me taking accountability, for instead of trying to not constantly thinking about business ideas or solving this, which I have done plenty of times in the past I'm trying to kind of get off that wheel of chasing the that's what I'm guilty of, man.

Speaker 3: 1:09:47

I'll be up in the middle of the night just podcast stuff. How we can make it better. You know, I'm always chasing one night I think it was up to like three o'clock in the morning just you know, like got these ideas, got these ideas just flooding our, our podcast chat there, man, like, but it's true, yeah, it's yeah, and I, I've, I've been.

Speaker 4: 1:10:07

So the reason why I love this conversation so much, too, is as a mental health advocate.

Speaker 4: 1:10:12

Right, let's not get it twisted and let's not, let's be honest, like all of us have been in our own low points, right, and we're constantly working on ourselves, so of course we want to pay it forward, get it twisted and let's not. Let's be honest, like all of us have been in our own low points, right, and we're constantly working on ourselves, so of course we want to pay it forward. But I do believe what we don't talk about enough is that could also be a uh, an addiction in and of itself is trying to help other people, and of course, you want to help so many people. You want to have more ideas for more episodes so you can help more people, hopefully. But then how are you helping yourself, right? How are you going to show up for yourself? So I really do commend joey for his decision to really take time for him and anthony your decision to turn off your social media and then eric, like you're working on being here and being present.

Speaker 4: 1:10:54

in terms of how are we? Can we show up for ourselves to show up for other people? Fill our glass first.

Speaker 2: 1:11:01

This shit fills my glass, man, I don't give a shit what anybody says, helping people or not. Bro, I love this.

Speaker 3: 1:11:07

This is it, man. I felt what I was born to do, bro, and this is it. This is my calling.

Speaker 4: 1:11:14

And that's freaking amazing. I hope it never stops. I love that Right.

Speaker 1: 1:11:53

100% A hundred percent Toxic relationships and the toxic friends and all these. These are decisions that you have to make for you, not for anybody else, and it's okay to be a little selfish and it's not in a bad way, but you, and if you don't look out for you and you, uh, first, how can you be the best father? How can you be the best boyfriend and husband? How can you be the best co how can you be the best boyfriend and husband? How can you be the best co-host, co-worker, any of that shit?

Speaker 1: 1:12:45

And if every day that you're still fighting yourself over, knowing that you're supposed to be doing these things but you're not because I'm so busy giving to everybody else all the time and I'm not filling up my own cup and I'm not filling up my own cup, then it just becomes very taxing on your mental health and your day-to-day. And again, this is a situation in myself that I had to make to step away from the show for a while and be able to refocus, to come out better. You know what I mean be able to refocus to come out better.

Speaker 2: 1:13:20

Yeah, you know what I mean and doing this.

Speaker 1: 1:13:21

Like I said, this is doing. This is just. I can't ask for better, and it's not about the money, it's about you know just what we've done to this point is. I am beyond grateful and having you tonight and every person on the show and Anthony coming into our lives. You know, from a guest to a co-host, that's wild. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:13:43

You're telling me, buddy, this wasn't in my 2024 calendar, that's for sure. I love that.

Speaker 4: 1:13:52

That's how you know you're doing something special and you can attract different people. Like different people that come on your show. The fact that Anthony was a guest and now he's co-hosting. That's freaking insane, but I love that.

Speaker 1: 1:14:04

Yeah, like he was a guest and then, you know, fast forward six months. He was having a hard time and I phoned him and I just said get your ass on the show. He's like oh, I don't really just deal with some shit.

Speaker 2: 1:14:13

I'm laying on my bed feeling sad. He's like like I don't fucking care, you're coming on. It's like okay.

Speaker 1: 1:14:18

Yeah, and then he felt a little bit better after that and then me and Eric talked and we're like we need to. You know, and even though, like me and Eric started it, whatever it is that we do in our life, especially in, like the business world, is you have to adapt, you have to keep, you have to make changes as you go.

Speaker 2: 1:14:36

You have to roll them right, you can.

Speaker 1: 1:14:38

If you keep doing the same thing over, yeah, it's successful in the beginning and then it'll. Everything will dial every time If you do not learn to adapt, grow, add, take away, revamp, et cetera. Right, and me and Eric were doing the same thing and then we just came across, you know, we got to a point. We're like you know what, let's add something. And then we just called him randomly one day and he's just like what it literally was fucking random I feel like I I feel like I was eating chicken wings.

Speaker 2: 1:15:07

When you guys called me, I was out with a buddy having chicken wings. You guys called me. You were too. You were, I remember.

Speaker 3: 1:15:12

I'm pretty sure that's what he's doing because me and joey are talking like, like we should bring another person in, and we just all of a sudden, all of us, anthony, like we just both thought, thought you came right to our head, man, you know you, you've touched us and we're glad that we made that friendship and now we're brothers and you're, you're here with us, man you take it easy.

Speaker 2: 1:15:35

I haven't even met you in person yet.

Speaker 1: 1:15:37

I haven't touched you once come on well, see, that's, that's. The funnier part is that anthony's been with us for a while, and as a guest on the show for over a year, and we've never actually met him, and he's brought mine that is.

Speaker 4: 1:15:53

That is bonkers. I'm on the other side of the country.

Speaker 2: 1:15:56

They're on the west coast. I'm over on the East, that's right.

Speaker 1: 1:15:59

This is as far we've gotten with Anthony. We don't even know who he is.

Speaker 2: 1:16:05

Like that Joke's on you guys. I'm 5'3".

Speaker 3: 1:16:09

But all three of us talk like almost every day.

Speaker 1: 1:16:12

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:16:13

We're close, you know.

Speaker 4: 1:16:14

I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:16:15

We're close. You know. I love that close. I love that you know. I love that you're a part of this too, now west, just so you know, yeah man yeah, you're in raw minds, family, brother oh it's, I mean, I I love it here.

Speaker 4: 1:16:26

I I love it. I would love to because, like for me being on the show, even how this all happened, it's just wild. But to hear and learn more about each and one of you, like that's, it felt my cup just hearing these stories.

Speaker 1: 1:16:41

So even hey, even though I'm stepping away for a little while, doesn't mean we can't fly me down and I'll go talk at a school with you for a weekend hey come on down bro, come on, I'm good, that's the thing.

Speaker 4: 1:16:52

So I'm building out a tour. Uh, I just finished my second tour, the 988 tour. So in the states, 988 is the National Suicide Prevention Hotline.

Speaker 3: 1:17:00

Yes, yep, it's the same up there. Oh, same up there, okay.

Speaker 4: 1:17:04

So I decided to call that number my tour, because that number before it was 988, it was 1-800-273-8255. And that number saved my life. So I called that hotline four years ago, five years, in this upcoming February, and I met a lady named Janice and, just like I guess, eric and Joey, you guys have never met Anthony before. I never met Janice in person. And we were just on the phone for like an hour, just almost like just talking, and she was just listening to me and she wasn't trying to give me a bunch of, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy techniques. She was just just listening, you know. And it saved my life because the next day I went to my therapist, I told her I was feeling suicidal and that's when I was hospitalized. So I got help.

Speaker 4: 1:17:54

But Janice heard me and if I could travel the country country, which I do now and help other people feel heard, almost do for others what janice did for me, just like you guys are paying it forward for more men or more women out there who are struggling, that is what the tour is all about. So, joey, I mean I know y'all, I would love to come, have y'all come to the states have you come to can yeah, come down can you put me up with a room with bathrobes and a hot tub in it, or what?

Speaker 1: 1:18:21

hey is that pushing it okay, okay, no hot tub push it a little bit you know, just the bathrobes and slippers. I want to feel like your pants.

Speaker 2: 1:18:30

Don't forget your pants.

Speaker 1: 1:18:32

I want to feel like a celebrity at least for one night, like have a camera man.

Speaker 3: 1:18:37

Yeah, you can also find joey on only pants.

Speaker 2: 1:18:39

He's got a website on only pants it's our little inside joke, but you know, what's crazy about that story about janice wes is when we had I didn't even tell you guys this story either when we had laverne on. Laverne was a police officer and he was talking about a situation where he had pulled someone over and he could tell the person was distressed. And laverne was a police officer and he was talking about a situation where he had pulled someone over and he could tell the person was distressed. And laverne had basically said to this guy he's like listen man, like forget about the uniform, like are you okay? So 24 hours before I ended up in treatment back in april of 2021 it was march 29 2021 there was a domestic situation with me and my kid's mom. She was staying at the house that I'm in and I was staying at my mother's and I came over and I caused a situation. It wasn't physical but it was not good for the kids to see. She ended up calling the police and I had this police officer pull me into the house and I remember talking to my kid's mom outside before and I was like angry, I was like raging mad and I said to her I was like I'm going to go in there and I'm going to tell this guy everything you did and I'm going to ruin your fucking life. And the minute I got inside the house with this police officer, it's exactly like you said. He wasn't there to get my side of the story the way he asked me. He's like are you okay? And I fucking broke down. And I was telling Laverne this because I had wanted to reach out to this gentleman because it's been almost four years. And Laverne's just like, oh, dude, there's this number you can call and they'll get you in touch with him. So I never told you guys this.

Speaker 2: 1:20:04

I was at work one day. This was like two weeks ago. I was at work. I was like, fuck, I got like five minutes to just get some information on this guy. So I called the, the police station, and I was talking to this woman. I'm like, yeah, like this is the date, this is what happened, this is kind of what he looked like. And she's like yep, like I, I have his information right here. I know exactly who it is.

Speaker 2: 1:20:23

And I was like, okay, like I gave her just like a little bit of the story. I'm like this will happen, like this is where I ended up afterwards as a result of him like treating me like a fucking human being and him not just like doing his job and like trying to get me out of the house. And she's like, okay, I'm just going to put you on hold for a quick minute and I'm just going to get his information together and then I'll, I'll come back on the line and I'll, uh, I'll give you his information. I'm like, okay, perfect, no way. On hold for like three minutes. And then a gentleman comes on the phone and I'm just like, um, I was just talking to a woman about a situation with this police officer. He's like, yeah, that was me. And I'm like, well, fuck man, like I'm sitting in my work truck at work, like I am not emotionally prepared to have this conversation right now.

Speaker 2: 1:21:03

I'm like sobbing in the work truck with a new guy. I'm just sitting there crying like dude you saved my life.

Speaker 2: 1:21:09

he went on holiday so he's actually back this. So him and I are going to connect. When he gets back to work this week, I'm going to go out he's working like 40 minutes away from me, he's like a supervisor and shit now and I'm going to go meet up with him and I'm actually going to give him. Um, like every year in recovery we get these things called medallions. They're just like fancy coins. I'm going to meet up, wasn't for that guy treating me that way, like I, I wouldn't be here today.

Speaker 2: 1:21:33

You know like he connected me with a crisis line crisis counselors. I ended up in hospital on suicide watch and it was because he took the time to see that I was suffering. You know, it wasn't someone who was just disgruntled like I was. I was going through some shit, you know so yeah, good for you, buddy yeah, I'm proud that's awesome, man. That's oh dude I was fucking sobbing on my phone and I'm a construction worker, dude, I'm just like sitting in the truck.

Speaker 3: 1:22:00

I'm like I didn't really want to have this conversation today, oh, ask him, uh, when he wants to have a meeting, to come on the show, bro, I'm probably, like I'm gonna mention to him for sure, I'm gonna sit down with this guy for like at least a good hour.

Speaker 4: 1:22:12

Man, I'm sure that'd be a great one.

Speaker 2: 1:22:14

That's a full circle moment yeah, and you know what it was. Man, like you know what it was. And like, even for you west, like I, I told you the starfish story on the, the pre-interview thing. Right, did I tell you the starfish story? Yeah, yeah. So even in recovery, like man, I've spoken in meetings in like downtown Toronto I'm like two hours from Toronto. I've spoken in Kingston. I've spoken on Zoom meetings, where there's people from fucking Germany and I've had people over the years come up to me at meetings being like I've heard you speak before and I'm like fucking where. Like I heard you on Zoom two years ago.

Speaker 2: 1:22:48

So it's like shit, like I've touched people's lives and I didn't even, I didn't even realize it, like I'm just doing what was asked of me to do and like same with this man, like I had someone reach out this week and they're like dude, I've listened to every episode of your guys' podcast, the finance one. Like hit a fucking chord with him cause he owns his own business and stuff. And it's like I learned that like sometimes people don't get the opportunity to reach out and tell you like the impact that you've had on their life. So for me, like I've been sitting on this, this thing with this police officer for three and a half years like I've wanted to reach out to him, because to him he was just doing his job, but to me he saved my fucking life yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:23:28

You know, what I mean. So it's super important to like, for me to like vocalize those people who've made a big fucking difference in my life. Oh, and have you connected with janice at all, like afterwards?

Speaker 4: 1:23:41

bro, but this is this is where it gets so weird that you're telling me this story, because I've been told by like three different people to like try to track janice down 100. I don't know how, because what do I call the hotline?

Speaker 4: 1:23:56

and be like yeah, yeah uh, I called on february 21st 2020. Can you pull the recordings from this number? Because the reason why I'm nervous to do that is it was four in the morning and she picked up her like it, so they they're given these like um separate phones, if that makes sense. It was like a call center, so I'm like, just, do they even have the data for that? So I'm like, all right, maybe that story just inspired me to do it.

Speaker 2: 1:24:24

I might call her up talk to me afterwards, wes, because I have someone from my past who works for 988 up in Canada, so I don't know if I can get information. I'll reach out to that person, but you and I will stay connected. And, uh, I've got your number through WhatsApp, so we'll stay connected and I'll see what I can do to find out some more information for you.

Speaker 4: 1:24:45

I need that, Cause I remember her voice she's. She was calling from North Carolina and I was in Boston and I don't know why we got matched together.

Speaker 3: 1:25:00

But yes, that's, that's the only information. I have Janice from North Carolina. That's awesome man. I hope you get connected with that man. I think that would that would be.

Speaker 4: 1:25:05

I would change my life, man, and it's actually wild that you said that story, because I had a similar experience when I was in middle school. A guy came to speak to our middle school. He lost his son to suicide because his son was just terribly bullied in middle school. So now, as a father, he now travels the country sharing his story about his son. His name is John Halligan and his son's name is Ryan and his whole program is called Ryan's Story. So he went to my middle school and I was like 12. So this is like the peak of my parents' divorce.

Speaker 4: 1:25:38

I don't understand what's going on. My two older siblings have moved out of the house. I'm like being bullied because at 12 years old I'm diagnosed with this rare skin disease called like vitiligo. So basically, I have like white spots throughout my body. I'm not sure you can see it, um. So anyway, I mean I'm being bullied. I'm in the audience and I just go up to this man after it's over. I was crying his arms because ryan's story was my story and that was when I was 12 years old. Fast forward, I'm 26 years old. 26 years old and I'm traveling the country telling my story. So, anyways, I track Ryan's story, john. His name is John. I call him. In August, the day before I left for tour, and I basically Googled his website, found his website, found his number, found his number. I call it. I'm thinking I'm going to get his agent.

Speaker 2: 1:26:34

I'm going to get his manager's number.

Speaker 4: 1:26:36

Bro, it was him. This man said hello, john Halligan. I'm like hi, you don't know who the F I am. My name is Wes Woodson. You came to my school when I was 12 years old. I want you to know that your story is you sharing your son's story changed my life and now I travel the country sharing my story. That man started crying on the phone and it gets even weirder because he goes like what was your school Cause I? I went home that day and I emailed him. I emailed him, he found the email. He found the email. He says it to me, he sends it to me and I start busting up crying because the email said I couldn't type for shit. Back then I couldn't spell, but the email said I typed that and said Mr Halligan, thank you for coming to my school. Your story changed my life. I hope one day I can have my own anti-bullying program.

Speaker 3: 1:27:32

Oh, my God.

Speaker 4: 1:27:33

Crazy Now being I'm posting that shit After this whole thing, I'm going to get that picture. I'm going to post that shit, I was like oh my God, yeah, stuff like that. So, anthony, I'm glad you had that experience. Man finding that officer. I hope y'all get up on the show because that is a full circle moment. Man finding that officer. I hope y'all get up on the show because that is a full circle man that's healing, that is healing, that is healing. Bro, even just hearing your story gives me goosebumps, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:28:03

Dude, I was not saying like. You know the feeling Like someone picks up the phone and you're not prepared for that type of conversation.

Speaker 4: 1:28:11

I was fucking stunned man.

Speaker 2: 1:28:13

It's just like yo, that that's me. I was there and I'm just like, oh, fuck, okay, well, I guess we're doing this now.

Speaker 4: 1:28:19

I guess this is happening today. Yeah, this is happening today. You know, um, and I was gonna say another thing too. Like I'm not again, this is the raw minds podcast. I can just be raw and real with y'all.

Speaker 3: 1:28:32

Yeah, 100% brother.

Speaker 4: 1:28:35

As we were talking man, I've been thinking about reaching out to my ex to write a letter, but I think for me, in terms of toxic relationship, I spent a lot of time blaming myself, a lot of time blaming myself. In a way, it's my fault. It's my fault in terms of like. I deserve this and I don't know. For the last, yeah, four years, I've been on this journey of unlearning those behaviors but reaching out as a letter, for a sense of closure, maybe not even just sending it to her, but just drafting a letter to her for my own sake, because this whole conversation has been nothing but killing for me. So, thank you, but that that is that in my mind right now like writing a letter of like closure after this.

Speaker 1: 1:29:20

Well, can I say something to that real quick I knew it was coming.

Speaker 2: 1:29:23

I was waiting for it. You know what I'm gonna say.

Speaker 1: 1:29:26

I know what you're gonna say no, it's just, it's a tool that I was given when I went to counseling and, okay, you know a lot of these things that you hear as we go, like these little things that the therapist will tell you to do, you're like man, that's fucking stupid, I wouldn't do that, that's dumb. Yeah, I used to think that with like, uh, meditation and all that, I'm like dude, that's dumb, I can't. I'm not doing that shit until you actually start to and you realize how much of a difference these things make. And as dumb, dumb as it sounds but I will just touch on real quick is you well, you writing this letter Now when I was in therapy and I held on to so much hate from old friends and things that people did to me and I couldn't let it go as much as I wanted to. I couldn't let it go and it was blocking me from moving forward. Now she told me, is do the same, what you is.

Speaker 1: 1:30:13

You write down in that letter as if the person is sitting across from you at the table and you be completely open, and if it's a hate, you say every vulgar word. You write it down like I fucking hate you, and every word, it doesn't matter, you just let it out Like they're sitting across from you, but you're writing it and when you're done, you read it out loud to yourself and then you go outside and you burn it and you put it up in a fucking basket, whatever. You light it on fire, that letter, and it's gone and that's you releasing it. And I promise you and I swear I held on to something from my past for a year and a half, anxiety, overthinking every day, and I did that. It was gone.

Speaker 1: 1:30:56

I woke up the next morning and I was just like, like I was just freed from that and it's the weirdest thing, just by that. So just a suggestion if you're gonna write that letter, because you're in a relationship anyway, so you sending a letter to your ex probably not a good idea, but that is something in order to release and even write out whatever blame that you take or whatever she takes. But it's all accountability in that letter as well, not just fuck you, I hate you. You did this to me, it's, I did this too, but now I'm releasing that because that is no longer in front of me, that is behind us, right, and that is your way of letting it go and knowing that you are feeling worthy and that you didn't deserve that Right.

Speaker 3: 1:31:45

Yep, that's a hundred.

Speaker 4: 1:31:47

Try it, try it. I'm going to try that. I'm going to try that. I mean, it's funny because tomorrow yeah, less than less than 12 hours from now I'm hopping on a flight to california for an engagement, for a speaking, uh, engagement, oh well, um. So I'll be in a hotel early, I'll get there wicked. I always try to arrive a day before the actual gig. So I'm speaking on wednesday, but I get in tomorrow morning early, so maybe I can go find somewhere to just like write this letter and burn the shit out of it.

Speaker 3: 1:32:15

You don't have to do it right away, like take some time to process it too. You know what I mean. It's supposed to be a whole, a whole thing, right, like?

Speaker 1: 1:32:24

and it's you know when you feel you heal right. So you're releasing that, all of it, into that letter as if they're looking at you across the table and you got all the hate to release, the love to release, the stress to release, and you write it as if you're reading it to them. So, after you're done reading, read it out loud, as if they're looking at you and you're reading this, to tell them how you really feel about everything that happened. And then you fucking burn it. For me, when she said this, I'm like that's fucking, how am I going to let that go after burning a piece of paper? That's fucking stupid. And I'm like you know what? I'm going to try this.

Speaker 1: 1:33:01

And I sat here and I wrote out I fucking hate this piece of shit, but whatever came out because that's how I was feeling and held on to. And then I sat on my balcony and then I just I'm like okay, and I'm just said out loud I'm letting this go now. And I lit it on fire, the piece of paper, dropped it. I woke up the next day my anxiety was gone on that situation. I'm just like dude, I'm like I let it, genuinely let it go. And that stupid little assignment that she gave me worked wonders. It's crazy, man, just these stupid little things.

Speaker 3: 1:33:35

It's so massive, it's almost like a black entity just holding on to you like this dark. You know what I mean, and it's just evil in it. And then as soon as you write that and that releases and it pulls it right from you, man, and that's pretty much how it is.

Speaker 1: 1:33:50

It was huge man, it was weird.

Speaker 1: 1:33:55

And it's funny that all these little things are so massive in your healing and the things that you try, like you know. I'll just give another quick, real example. Like I suffered from high anxiety disorder for years because of all the shit that I was dealing with and had to deal with on the regular and I would look up every day how do I get rid of anxiety, how do I this? And and it would never go away and it killed me. It was crippling like every day until one day and I'm just about these little dumb things.

Speaker 1: 1:34:22

I was scrolling on TikTok and a guy, just a random dude, and on the video he's like you know what? I'm not a doctor, but I started taking this. I've had anxiety for 15 years. I don't have anxiety anymore. And then this doctor jumps in on their fucking half screen and he's like this guy is correct, take this Anxiety gone. And I went through the depression pills, the anxiety pills. Nothing was really working. Yeah, you get the edge off, but it was always there, all day, every day, and I was struggling hard and it was over the counter at the fucking pharmacy Magnesium, vitamin D Together, that's it. I'm like dude. For 15 bucks I could have got rid of this fucking six years ago and I tried it.

Speaker 1: 1:35:05

I shit, you not. I've been taking it now every day for almost a year Like 98% of my anxiety and I suffered hard Gone. It's gone over over fucking shit like and they sell in our dollar stores here and it's just like dude. That that's it. And so these little things, like I said, the letter, the fucking vitamins, that little vitamins like this, all these dumb little things, you're just like it's fucking massive. I just can't believe how much my life changed over these little things.

Speaker 4: 1:35:40

Yeah, you're right To your point. It's a secret, it's a secret.

Speaker 3: 1:35:47

I do want to say, though if you want to touch on just a little bit of your socials, if you want to post that out there.

Speaker 2: 1:35:55

We want you to plug it. Shit, bro, where tell?

Speaker 1: 1:35:58

everybody, tell everybody where we can find you, where they can look you up, where they can come see you, everything listen to you speak, whatever, everything all right, so you can find me, uh, on instagram, youtube, uh, tiktok, uh, let's see linkedin.

Speaker 4: 1:36:18

If you're out there on linkedin, it's just at wes woodson. So at w-e-s-w-o-o-d-s-o-n, I document my mental health journey on youtube. I'm putting more videos out documenting my own journey with adhd, uh, anxiety, my speaker journey as well, talking about how to build a healthy relationship with yourself, both on and off stage, both in relationships and out of relationships, and really fall in love with yourself. I'm trying to really just use my platforms to amplify other voices as well, so I'd love to have y'all along for the journey. If you want to learn more and reach out to me, you can go to westwoodsoncom and there's a cool button on my website that I love telling people about. If you click that button, it's like this big kind of black and green button, the top right-hand corner of your screen. It says Dear Wes, you can write me an anonymous letter just to to help people feel more seen, heard and understood. Um, and I would love to connect with you. But, yeah, that's, that's how we connect. I, I love this.

Speaker 3: 1:37:21

I love meeting people on the internet, just like I met my new brothers right here hell yeah, brother, can you send me all your socials and everything like that, because I'll put that in the description as well, when we air this and we'll have all that in there, so you can check it all out.

Speaker 2: 1:37:38

What about your book Wes?

Speaker 4: 1:37:40

Oh, my book we can't forget about the book.

Speaker 3: 1:37:43

I got to go get that one. Yeah, get the book, bro. Plug that shit, man. What are you doing? Get it all.

Speaker 4: 1:37:56

I got to get my book in my library right here, but I wrote a book called I have Anxiety. So what? Because I think a big thing that we struggle with today, whether you're a man, whether you are a woman, whether you are some sort of perfectionist is shame. The idea is that how can we talk about these things and work through shame and the book it quite literally. There's a backstory behind this through shame and the book it quite literally. There's a backstory behind this. When I was in the hospital, they gave me a green folder matter of fact, I think I actually have the green folder. It's somewhere in this room, I'll get in a second but they gave me a green folder and when I was matter of fact, hold on, hold up, I'm gonna get do your thing, get your book, get your folder, get it all yeah bring it bring it in it's right here.

Speaker 4: 1:38:35

This is my hospital folder. I still keep it to this day. I was in the hospital. They gave me this folder with freaking worksheets. Every freaking day we had a new worksheet, we had like all these different exercises and I kept it. But y'all, when I say I would study this stuff, that's the only thing I would really study religiously was the worksheets that they were giving me on how to fight through procrastination, how to practice better sleeping habits, the importance of your diet, understanding what magnesium actually even is. You know, I mean learning all of these things in the hospital. So I put it all in here. And the reason why it's green like this because I wanted it green like that but the printer messed up. But that's what it really comes down to. And you can get the book on Amazon, barnesnoblescom.

Speaker 3: 1:39:26

Yeah, give me those links too, brother, and I'll put those in there too. Where's the best?

Speaker 4: 1:39:31

place to buy to support you the most.

Speaker 4: 1:39:38

Because I know Amazon me those links too, brother, and I'll put those in there too where's the best place to buy to support you the most, because I know amazon takes a cut like where's the best spot to buy it. I appreciate that if you shoot me an email west at westwoodsoncom so my first name at westwoodsoncom and just say I want to support the book, I'll send you a memo link and I'll send me your address and I'll ship it to you Signed copy. I'll sign it for you.

Speaker 2: 1:39:59

Hell yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:40:00

Wes, we're going to hook up. I want to sign copy buddy, so we'll get all that sorted.

Speaker 1: 1:40:07

Let me know when you book that first class ticket for me to come down. Just give me the details of what hotel, all that shit. I'll rent the car, don't worry.

Speaker 4: 1:40:17

I'll run it, I'll give it to you, I'll make sure. Do you want the penthouse or you want the other speakers? I'm not greedy.

Speaker 1: 1:40:23

I'm not greedy. As long as you got the bathrobe and the slippers, I'm good hey guys, are you a 100% cotton dude or more so polyester?

Speaker 4: 1:40:32

Which one do you want? I like a 50-50, blend 50-50.

Speaker 1: 1:40:35

I like it. We can go into details after the show. For sure We'll put in the contract.

Speaker 4: 1:40:42

We'll make it happen.

Speaker 1: 1:40:42

But you know what, before Anthony takes us out, I just want to say, because I'm stepping away from the show, you, as our last guest, has made it awesome for me, especially your energy. Dude, who you are is the best send-off. This is not a forever thing for me. I can't say it's not forever Again. I have to refocus on other parts of my life that needs more attention right this second, for anyone listening, that doesn't change you guys reaching out If you need to speak, if you need to talk, if you need help. That's why we're all doing what we do.

Speaker 1: 1:41:30

I'm sure Wes wasn't like you said. You hit him up, anthony. Eric, you're struggling. You don't think you can make it another day in this world. Reach out, I will answer, even if I'm not on the show. I will pick up that phone and I will call you and I will do my best to keep you off of that ledge, like I used to stand on. So that doesn't mean I'm not here to help, doesn't mean I'm not here to support, doesn't mean I'm not here to be the cheerleader Background buddy. You're the background buddy.

Speaker 3: 1:42:05

Yeah, I'll be the lights guy in the background, a fluffer or what.

Speaker 1: 1:42:13

But I just want to thank you, wes. Man, like you know, I know we're joking around, but it would be an honor one day to come out and, you know, be able to, even if I'm not doing this right now, to just be able to talk to some kids and, you know, and really help in any way I can. Or if you know, even, you know, even if it's a phone call and you got someone that needs to talk and maybe I'm better at helping, I'd be happy to do that to you, my friend. So, regardless if I'm on the show or not, I still, you know, we raw minds for life, man, no matter what. So again, wes, and you boys, man, you guys just mean the world to me. You guys are my brothers. So I want to personally thank you and everyone that's listening In all 13 fucking countries. That's how we do, anthony. Take it away, buddy.

Speaker 2: 1:43:05

Before we take it away, I just want to Ask Wes one more question. And I'm going to start asking this every episode. I love it In one sentence what's your message to the world?

Speaker 4: 1:43:17

You are enough, just the way that you are. That's it, thank you. That's my message. You are enough, just the way that you are.

Speaker 2: 1:43:25

Thank you. So I would like to formally thank you, wes, for coming out. This won't be the last time that we have you on. You're a very busy man, I know. Well, no we'll have you back on, absolutely, joey. Thank you for introducing me to this. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this and to be a part of your journey, eric, thank you for everything that you fucking do, like the amount of background work you put in, man. Thank you to the listeners of background work you put in man.

Speaker 2: 1:43:52

Thank you to the listeners. You guys are the fuel to this fucking fire. I shit the bed on it last week, so I'm going to call myself out. If you want to be in the hot seat where Wes is, hit us up at rawmindspodcast at gmailcom. We'll have anybody on, as long as you've got a message that you want to share.

Speaker 2: 1:44:12

Fuck, yeah, this is the platform we. We open the floor. Floor to whoever wants it, whoever's got different experiences. We love it. Like we've got guests who want to come on and talk about microdosing with psilocybin. We've got guests like west, who do this for a living and they they go around and share their story. We've got guests who've who've been through the suicide stuff law enforcement officers, ex-navy seals, all the shit. Like we. We love it.

Speaker 2: 1:44:37

There's so many ways to heal. There's so many tools that we have not even scratched the surface on yet. So if you've got the tools, we want to hear them. So hit us up at raw minds podcast at gmailcom. Follow us on tiktok at raw minds podcast. Follow us on TikTok at Raw Minds Podcast. Follow us on Spotify, youtube, audible, apple Music, all this shit and leave us a review, because it means a lot to us. It helps us out in the long run. So I want to thank you, wes, for coming out. I want to thank you, joey, for everything that you've done to this point. We always love you, we will always support you, and thank you everybody for being a part of this journey tonight.

Speaker 3: 1:45:16

Thank you, always support you and thank you everybody for being a part of this journey tonight.

Speaker 2: 1:45:17

Thank you, wes appreciate you, brother. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:45:18

Joey, we'll see you around, don't worry and just remember if you can't find good people, be good people boom boom, boom.