Raw Minds
Welcome to Raw Minds, the podcast where we explore the challenges and triumphs of men's mental health, single fatherhood, and daily life experiences. In each episode, we dive deep into the issues that go on in men's minds, sharing personal stories and insights that can help you better understand yourself and the world around you. Whether you're a single dad, dealing with mental health challenges, or simply looking for inspiration and guidance, this podcast is for you. So, sit back, relax, and join us on this journey of self-discovery and growth.
Raw Minds
Raw Minds S2 Ep. 5 - The Lethal Circle: Poisonous Surroundings
In this hard-hitting episode of Raw Minds, Erick, Joey, and Anthony take a deep dive into the toxic environments that can develop when one person's negativity begins to infect the group. Whether it's a bad boss, a manipulative friend, or a family member who constantly drags others down, these poisonous surroundings can have devastating effects on mental health, relationships, and even career growth.
We explore what happens when someone becomes the "bad apple" in a circle and how their behavior spreads, impacting everyone around them. Why does negativity seem so contagious, and how can we recognize the warning signs before it takes hold? We’ll be breaking down the ways in which toxic behavior festers—whether it's through gossip, manipulation, or emotional outbursts—and discussing the emotional toll this takes on everyone involved.
You’ll hear us talk about our own experiences with toxic people, from the frustration of trying to change someone to the difficult decision to walk away. We also ask the hard questions: Can a toxic person ever change? Should we try to help them, or do we need to focus on protecting ourselves and our mental well-being?
Throughout the episode, we’ll offer actionable advice on how to deal with these situations. We’ll cover techniques for managing toxic relationships, setting boundaries, and deciding when it’s time to cut ties completely. For those in leadership roles, we’ll discuss strategies to prevent toxic behavior from spreading in teams and how to address it before it does real damage.
This episode isn’t just about identifying toxic people—it’s about understanding how deeply they can affect our lives and finding ways to take back control. If you’ve ever felt stuck in a bad situation where someone else’s behavior made everything worse, this is the episode for you.
Call to Action: If you’ve dealt with toxic surroundings or have your own experiences with bad apples, we want to hear from you. Drop us a comment, share your story, or leave a review to help others who might be going through the same thing. You can also reach out to us at Rawmindspodcast@gmail.com. Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share this episode with someone who might need it.
And join us live at 6 PM Pacific on TikTok for unfiltered conversations, where we’ll dive even deeper into today’s topic and interact with listeners in real-time!
yeah, buddy, we are back once again to the show that shatters the silence on men's mental health. We are unedited, unfiltered.
Speaker 2:And, as always, we are going raw. I'm Anthony.
Speaker 3:And my name is Joey and I'm Eric and we're your hosts, and welcome to Raw Minds.
Speaker 1:Raw motherfucking Minds, episode 5. Season 2.
Speaker 2:That's us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, buddy, we on a roll, we on a roll. We told these guys that we ain't going nowhere, hell. No, we just keep popping up every week.
Speaker 3:That's what we do.
Speaker 1:And we're all over your social medias. Oh yep, we're everywhere. So thank you, guys all for tuning in. If you are new to the show and this is your first episode listening to us we welcome you. Please follow us on basically every social media platform hit, hit the like, subscribe, leave comments, leave some input, you know, even throw out some topics that you want us to really dive into and talk about. And, yeah, it's welcome. If you are new, again, we love having you guys and, like I said, we are here every week and we ain't going nowhere.
Speaker 3:Exactly. We are here every week and we ain't going nowhere exactly. So today we're talking about something that a lot of us deal with but maybe don't know much about, right. That's, uh, dealing with toxic people in your circle.
Speaker 1:I think we've all had that eh, yeah, not, yeah, not even just your circle man, it's just toxic people in your workplace, toxic people in public. You see it all the time, right? Yeah, definitely, it's just so soul-draining. You know what I mean to have people around you all the time that is just victims and negative and only go off about their problems, but they do nothing about it and complain about life. They're they gotta be, they're they're the worst men.
Speaker 2:They gotta be the worst accountability for their shit. They're always blaming other people. Just real winners at life. You know the good ones.
Speaker 3:Yeah, vampires, man, they'll suck everything right out of you they're energy vampires yeah, exactly right, huge, you know.
Speaker 1:But I mean those negative people, man they have it comes from deep levels of insecurities, right, absolutely, and that and that and a lot of that is childhood traumas. That comes, you know, shit in their past and why they're so negative all the time. And you know these people think that the world's out to get them and that life sucks. But I mean, your life is what you make of it. Bottom line period, no matter what's happened to you in your life. You know I've said this lots before is you are where you are in your life because of the choices that you make. Yep, right, you put yourself in the position that you are in your life because of the choices that you made. Yep, right, you put yourself in the position that you're in regardless of what has happened to you or what you know has done to you. What you've been through, you know, and it's really tough, I know, when there's a lot of things that happen to people, that's extremely traumatic and it changes you forever. But regardless, it's still up to you on what you do with that. Going forward and where you are is a product of the choices that you make from that and you know when we're in those deep depressions and the struggles, we're not thinking straight, we make a lot of bad choices, a lot of bad decisions, and when you're in that, like we were, is you just you stop caring, you know, and that's where you get to that point where people unalive themselves or of contemplating it daily. Right, it's because they got to a point where they just stopped caring. But in that, when you stop caring, that's a choice, because pain is inevitable but suffering is optional, right? So, and it is, it's facts, and it's even in that pain and even while you're struggling, you're still making choices, and it might not be the wrong, the right ones, and it definitely most of the time isn't because you're hurting and you just don't care anymore, but that's still a choice.
Speaker 1:And those choices, regardless if you're hurting or not, is going to put you to where you are today, right, and like when you go through heartbreaks and traumatic events and all that, it's those choices that either drags that out and affects the rest of your life with the snowball, or do you try to make the better choices to heal from that faster so that the rest of your life doesn't fall off right. But it's definitely, you know, and we sympathize with it a million percent, is when you're in that it's extremely hard to pull yourself up and to get out of bed and to be around people and still go to work. But at the end of the day, no matter what, you have to because that's what makes you worse, right? And that's where people fall into that deep depression is because it's not just one thing. One thing brings them down to their knees, but once everything else starts to fall off because of that thing, that's when it's extremely hard to get back up, because now you've allowed everything else in your life to be affected by that.
Speaker 3:Well, let me ask you guys a question here. You guys ever been in a situation where one person just dragged everyone down, and then also, how did it affect you guys? Or the guys were in?
Speaker 2:anthony yeah, I mean it. The problem is is it happens all the time, right like, like we said there, there's people just out in the fucking world that are just vampires. Right, um, work I think work is the most common one, um, and I've dealt with it a lot and you know I've been that person too. Right like, in my line of work, like what I do for work, our days are unpredictable until we show up to the job, and I was the type of guy that, like I, would get to the job. You don't really know what you're in for until you start work. Once you start work, you kind of know what you're you're in for for your day, and I remember I used to just get like right off the get-go as soon as I knew my day was going to be shit. Like joey said, you kind of just like step back and look at the whole day, right, and then I'm miserable all day. But what I've learned to do is just like realize what I'm in for and say, okay, well, being miserable, being that bad apple, being that person that's going to just bring everybody else down, that's not going to improve anything. I know it sucks, we all know it's going to be a shitty day, but just focus on one thing at a time. That's how I kind of tackle that type of stuff.
Speaker 2:I've had some really hard co-workers to deal with, where they just show up in the morning and like I've had jobs where show up in the morning and I'm working with someone we're not going to get this job done, like, dude, we haven't even got in the fucking truck and left the yard yet. Like if you're bringing that type of energy now, what do you anticipate the rest of the day? Looking like you know, it's one thing to have low expectations, that's fine, yeah, but how you verbalize them and how you perceive them is a different thing. Right, like if, if your perception is, this is gonna suck, we're not gonna get it done today, boohoo, that's a shitty attitude to have. You know, if you go in with an expectation of, well, I'll go in and I'll do my best and I'll do what I can, and I don't really have an expectation on what's going to get done, I'll just do what I can when I get there, that's a low expectation that has a more positive perspective than just like thinking we're not going to get this done.
Speaker 2:And it's really hard to deal with these types of people because their energy fucking affects yours like man. I can count so many co-workers that I used to have that were like that, and some that I still do have. They're just fucking miserable and it's like man, I don't, I don't want to work with you. I can be miserable too, but that doesn't mean I have to show it or or make it your fucking problem. You know like, we're there to do a job, we get paid this amount of money, said amount of money, to do said job, and when the job's done, the job's done. But sitting here bitching about the job before you've even fucking started it isn't going to help it get any better. So, yeah, like work.
Speaker 2:For me, work is the one place that I deal with it a lot. I've gotten really good at trying to remove those types of people from my life. You know there's a place for certain people at certain parts of my life. If I need motivation or I need something to fire me up, I'm sure as shit not going to go to those people for it, because they're not good for those types of things. They have skill sets. But motivating or pumping you up to get something done, sure as shit ain't one of them. That's my experience with those types of people.
Speaker 3:What about you, Joey?
Speaker 1:Well, before I answer Eric's question, there was a study that was done and it goes basically kind of with what Anthony was just saying, and they called it the bad apple effect. So they took groups of people, random groups of people, and they gave them all tasks to do and, without telling some of the groups, they stuck someone on purpose who was extremely negative into that group, into the tasks that they were doing, and this person obviously, obviously, was miserable complaining, arguing, you know just all around. That was his job, but the other people didn't know that this person was added and over the day of tasks that they were given, they found that just in I think it was three hours though the group with the negative person in it, the productivity dropped by 40% compared to the group without it and it went up 50% with more arguing, more bickering and more people becoming miserable in three hours just because of one fucking person. And how and that right there tells you how toxic, uh, one person can be on your life. Now, to answer your question, like you deal with that work, we've all dealt with people like that and I even look, because I'm a supervisor as well, and I've had people where every day they're bitching and complaining when really I'm looking at their job and I'm like it's not that fucking hard. What are you complaining for? And that's just how they are right. So we deal with that.
Speaker 1:But for me, if I would look like I remember I had a friend, you know, and he was a good guy but it did not matter what you were doing he would find the negative in it. Oh, we're just going over here with a couple people for some, for some wings. You want to come? No, I hate the beer there. I don't want to go. Like just the dumbest little negative things. Like he would get mad at me for whistling in public because they got less rude for other people. Like he would just find like it didn't matter, like, like you know what I mean, like it was just these negative and it just weird on me. I'm like I can't hang out with this fucking guy anymore. I like him, but his whole outlook on every situation vitamin somewhere. He'd find a negative in it. I don't want to go there. Oh, their, oh their food sucks. You know what I mean? Oh, I don't like their clothes. Like it didn't matter, it was the negative in all of it. I'm like don't drink the beer, then who gives a shit? And that's you know. That's like you're going for the company, but it didn't matter because if it was one thing that he could find that was wrong with the place or whatever it is that we were doing like, he even came trip with me, for example, and to vegas, and I bought a ticket for my dad for christmas. He's never been to vegas, couple right before covid, and he came on the trip dude, he destroyed my trip and I haven't had a normal holiday in like 13 years and the whole time was negative.
Speaker 1:This I'm like why are you complaining, man? I'm like there's all the people in there, let's go in there. And everyone knows vegas is expensive and when you go to a place that you know is already expensive, you're going to spend the money and you don't want to spend like if you're having beers and they're $15 American, that's ridiculous. But you're on holiday, you're going to pay for it anyways because that's where you are. I don't want to spend $15 on a beer. Nobody does, but you chose to go here. We're here, let's have a good time, let's go have a beer. No, man, I'm not going in there and paying that money and he wouldn't even go in anywhere. We went, didn't matter if it was bar nothing, it was just dude like it just killed my entire trip when I tried my best to just ignore it.
Speaker 1:But that energy like sucked the fucking energy out of me and even my dad did you leave him alone Like just said fuck this shit Like yeah, yeah, and I'd leave for the night by myself and I'm walking the strip by myself because my dad's, you know older and he's passed out and I'm sitting in the room. Oh, I don't want to go, I don't want to do this. I don't I don't know if you've been to vegas or not the stratosphere 1200 foot building and my bucket list was to go there and jump off of it, because you can jump off of it. Yeah, and at the bottom, you know, you got to take the elevator all the way to the top and there's a bar up top and fucking whatever he wasn't jumping, which is that the one with the roller coaster that goes around it, that's on top of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, and it's 1200 feet above the above the.
Speaker 1:Uh yeah, vegas above vegas right, yeah, I saw it and I was there yeah, at the bottom, going up with my dad, and I'm like, yeah, okay, let's go, we'll get the elevator. He can wait up top, I'll jump off and come back up. That was the plan. I don't care if you don't jump, but, yeah, it was $20 to go up if you didn't jump. No, I'm not going up, I'm just going to walk around. And he just stayed at the bottom. I'm like, do not message me, dude, when I'm out there, because I'm not coming down, because you're waiting and you're impatient. Now, like it's just, oh, dude, it was just bad.
Speaker 1:So, that being said, is whether it's work, whether it's on a trip, whether it's your friend and even family. So many people have toxic family members and they think that, because it's family, that you know you kind of have to deal with it, even though you don't want to, but you feel obligated because it's family. But I'm telling you that if your family is that toxic that it is okay to cut them off. It is okay because if it is draining your mental health and if it was sucking the life out of you, it is okay to distance yourself from that father or brother or whatever. Because I tell you like one person like that in your life kills your enthusiasm, kills your drive, and it brings you and then those kind of people, because they're so insecure, they're trying to bring you down to their level Because you're trying to go here and they're staying down here and they want to drag you back down. And it is so bad, so negative people in your life, man, is you got to cut them.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter who it is, and a part of growth as you get older is there's a saying is that you know that you're growing up is when you start losing friends, because a part of that is, as you're elevating and bettering yourself, you'll notice these energy suckers trying to bring you back down. And when you get to a point where you you know more confidence and self-worth is that's when you start losing those friends, because you realize, even though I've been friends with you for 20 years, man, like I can't bring you with me on this journey. I can't, you know, and it's shitty, but I've done it. I've cut off 20 year friends because they're either being disrespectful or just negative all the time doing the same thing over complaining about life, playing the victim.
Speaker 3:You know a different, a different type too. Man is, um, drinking. You know someone can be totally cool when they're sober, you know you get along super, super great. But soon as they got some alcohol and oh man, they're a totally different person and which can put you in bad situations where, where I've had friends that you know totally cool, drinking, totally different person something happens now put that, put their other friend in the situation right, and that's very toxic too.
Speaker 1:You got to watch out for that, especially when people abuse, um, any type of substance oh for sure, right, and it's, it's just, it's just, it's, it's all around bad, you know. And then, like I said, as you start to grow and you start to realize these things and you're able to start cutting them off is when you're starting to realize that you're growing up and you're, you're on a path and you can't let these people bring you down, family or not, man, that is the worst thing to have in your circle, right, and it's just like you said, like you are your friends. So if all your friends are just negative, playing victim all the time, what do you think you're going to end up being like? Because they suck the energy out of you now, you're going to be negative all the time and you're going to start realizing, because I remember even relationships.
Speaker 1:I remember dating a girl back in the day and it was just miserable all the time. Then you think it's you, but it wasn't. And then it's just dude, like you, and you can't be with these people because they're just so, just toxic. And they're gonna be toxic in all different ways. Right, but just let me life like is draining man well, let me ask you guys another question here.
Speaker 3:Uh, do you guys think it's easy to spot these people early on, or do they have just like, do they just sneak up on you? What do you guys think? I mean, I see the signs I think it depends.
Speaker 2:You know, like some people are hella good at hiding it. But also, like once, once I became aware of the behaviors of those types of people, it's a lot easier to spot, but you have to be careful too. It kind of goes back to our episode last week on like narcissism and stuff. Like, if you're an empathetic person, it's very easy to fall into a position with someone, and it doesn't always have to be a relationship. Sometimes it can be with family, right, or obviously friends or work. But like, if you're empathetic and you're willing to show up for these people, these people are going to keep taking. If you keep giving, you know and there's nothing wrong with setting that boundary or detaching from them. But also in that you don't know a fucking explanation to anybody.
Speaker 2:Like to go back to the the friends thing. Like, yeah, like I'm sorry, but I'll tell you right now, when I'm on my deathbed, I don't want to be surrounded with friends, you know, I want to be surrounded with my loved ones, with my kids. You know, like that's, that's what I'm at the end of the day, that's what's important, and I'll tell you right now those kids have fucking kept me alive on some of my hardest days just by being there, and they don't know that I've had some great friends who reach out when they're concerned for me or just checking in on me. Don't get me wrong, but since I got into recovery I have one friend who's not in recovery outside of you two who I have prior to getting sober. His name's Kevin. He's one of my best friends. He was my best friend before I got sober. He's still one of my best friends after I got sober.
Speaker 1:Aside from that man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shout out, kevin, aside from that man, I've got only friends in recovery. I've got some really close friends in recovery. Now, in saying that kevin's not someone I'm gonna talk to about recovery stuff, because he doesn't fucking get it and that's okay, you know, and again, that's kind of the important part about understanding the place that people have in your life and especially with family. You know, like I've got two brothers, there's certain things I trust brother a with. There's certain things I trust brother b with. There's certain things I'd call brother a for. There's certain things I'd call brother b for. But there's also things I would call you guys for.
Speaker 2:Before I call my fucking brothers. Right, you guys show up, you guys understand the struggles. They don't understand the struggles the way that you guys do. You're allowed to position people in your life where they fit and where they're important. You know there's a difference between calling a friend because you're having a bad day and you just need to offload some shit on them, like we do, you know. But going to someone just to bitch about something and being that person to them only, that's not.
Speaker 3:That's that's being that bad apple and you don't want to be that bad apple there is a thin line, though, I'd have to say definitely on just having a bad day, to being that bad apple. I mean, yeah, okay, you know you had a bad day, a bitch about it, you're venting, okay, yeah, that's totally cool but, when it's like ongoing and ongoing you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:That shit spreads, and then the next day this guy's gonna feel like it, and then the next day this one and so on and so on, until the whole job site or wherever you're at is all toxic. We say job site because we're in construction, but I mean wherever you're at. It just spreads, like Joey said, with the bad Apple effect.
Speaker 2:Oh, we've literally got to work right now that nobody wants to work with him because of his attitude. He takes no accountability. He's he's an older guy and don't get me wrong Like he's been doing this a lot longer than I have. He's in it more inexperienced than me. But he has no desire to do anything above and beyond his simple tasks that he's been given. And if something goes wrong, even if it was his job, the first thing he's like it's an inside joke between the boss and I. Like if it's something that he did, well, sorry, I'm just the labor, I'm number two, like it doesn't fall on me. It's like nobody wants to work with you, man. Like sure, you can be an all right guy, but if you have that fucking attitude at work, I don't want to be around you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like if you can't own simple shit, then why the fuck would I want to be around you?
Speaker 1:100 yeah, well, I mean, like, like you said, eric, there's a big difference from negative feelings and being a negative person. Right, because there is days where you want to vent and you want to talk, like I had a pretty rough day today. I'll talk to you after, or whoever, because I'm having. You know, people have hard days. People are allowed to be, they're allowed to be stressed out, they're allowed to be sad. Yep, right.
Speaker 1:And if I'm calling you because I have a problem, that's not me being negative, that's me looking for advice, looking for a shoulder for a minute or two or for a day or two. But if I'm coming to you with the same problem, week after week, complaining and complaining and complaining, complaining, and I'm not making any changes, well, that's, that's a me problem. That's me just being a negative piece of shit and complaining about life yeah, right, and being miserable in my own and with where I'm at in my own life. And majority of people are like that, like okay, well, what are you doing about it? Why are you complaining all the time?
Speaker 1:You say, you, you want to lose weight and you're tired of looking the way that you do. But are you going to the gym? No, you're not. You're just complaining, I'm not happy with myself and no one likes me in this, and both like it's just, it's horrible man, it's toxic, like those people right there, just shut up. I'm just telling you right now, if you're listening, you're that person. Just shut up, because only you can make the changes in your life. If something is not going right for you in your life and you have control over that, then you have control over changing that. But also a lot of that is there's a lot of hard work that goes behind some of that and people don't want to do that because they're too comfortable and just existing right yeah, it's true, man so, instead of being, you know, they look at like a heart rate monitor.
Speaker 1:They just live their life with like a flat line, with like a little bump and then a severe drop. And maybe a little bump, severe drop and that's. You know what I mean. Why not have it like a freaking stock market chart where you're skyrocketing and that should be your life. But people don't want to put in that work because they're comfortable. It's too hard.
Speaker 1:But again, we've said, how many times we've said this pick your heart. That's it. Stop being negative. Do you like living like this every day? Do you like when people don't want to be around you? Do you like when your kids don't want to hang out with dad because he's miserable all the time and he's always yelling at us and he's always throwing things and he's just not never smiles and he's never happy? Because you're just pouting all the time, like there's a difference from struggling and being negative, big difference, like if you're struggling about something, that that's it. That's a huge difference than just being that person.
Speaker 1:And the, the ones that are struggling or sorry, the ones that are complaining all the time, those are the people that have shit that they just never dealt with and that's why they're like that, because they're miserable. And then I'm like this because of that person and what they did to me six years ago and they hold on to it. I know we talked about this with anger. When you stick, you know you take a bowling ball and walk around with it and stick what you're angry about on that bowling ball and see how much that weighs you down. And that's these people. They're just carrying around all this weight with everything. They're angry about everything that they're upset about, miserable about, but they're not doing anything about it. So all they're doing is carrying this weight all the day, every day, and that's why they're so negative all the time. So they suck the energy out of you to bring you to their level because they're not happy with themselves and the choices they made, and they know it. They know they got to get up and go to the gym. They know that they don't feel happy at their job, they know that they're not happy where they're living, but they just choose not to get up and put in the work.
Speaker 1:So again, it's pick your heart. You want to be miserable the rest of your life and just nobody wants to be your friend anymore and talk to you and hang out with you, or do you want to actually grind for six months to a year? Find a purpose, get off your ass, put in the hard work Damn right, it's hard, but think of what you get on the outside of that, because I'm living proof of that. I live that negative mindset. I was struggling, I was negative.
Speaker 1:I would like, just like people on the internet that goes out of your way, to throw shade because I was fucking miserable in my life Miserable. But then I got to a breaking point where I'm like I can't be like this anymore. So I made the change and it was the hardest thing I ever did. But I chose that hard and because of that I can sit here tonight with both of you talking to all these people and never in 20 years of trauma and suicide attempts, ever thought that I can be in the mindset and clarity in my head that I have today. Because of that and most of you people listening, you can get there too, but choose your heart.
Speaker 1:So, what would you which one's harder?
Speaker 2:What would you guys say was like your pivotal point. This is kind of just outside of the bad apple thing, but like, what would you say was like your pivotal moment that changed your mindset. Like what, was it that easy?
Speaker 3:Yeah, go ahead. My daughter, daughter, straight up, my daughter, knowing that I was going to be a father, uh, that was the biggest change of my life and made me the person I am today. No questions asked. Definitely, definitely.
Speaker 2:What about you, Joey?
Speaker 1:You know, when I really think back at the hard times is the worst times is when I was already a father. You know and I held on, just like you said said earlier that your kids kept you going and they didn't know that. And my kids, like I, got to a point at one point where I tried to kill myself and I already had my son when he was about nine months old, and I fought every day, knowing that I would leave him without a father. And when you get to that point where you just don't want to wake up anymore, you are so far gone that you're in so much pain mentally that even your family and your close friends can't hold on to you and keep you going. So I would love to say it was my kids saved my life and the reason I'm here today is because of my son.
Speaker 1:But you know, a lot of people make the same mistake over and over and they don't learn their lesson. I kept making the same mistake over and over and I kept self-sabotaging my own life, I kept self-sabotaging my own relationships and it took, I would say, 12 years after being a father where my last relationship failed and I and I I broke with from that and from all the other things that I was dealing with to the point where it was so bad and I mentioned this along, if you're listening like I spent five days in my bedroom and I lost 30 pounds in six days that that was my breaking point, where I just I wasn't learning. I made the mistake over and over to the point where a lot of people get to where they would unalive themselves. So thank god. And but that point was my kids. That brought me back from that and I said I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 1:So even when you have your children, that that definitely changes your life Sometimes you're in a place where children are not you, you can't even lift your head up. So it took me years of making the mistake, same mistake, and every time I did it I knew I did it, I'm like you did it again, but yet I kept doing it until that where that was the life changer for me, where it really blew up in your face. You know and we always try to preach you know you make the change before you have to change, and I I didn't do that. I waited until it was so bad that I then had to change. So it took all of that of constant making mistakes to really come out of that, to make that change.
Speaker 3:Well, you got to hit rock bottom.
Speaker 2:You made the change and I'm kind of with you with you, joey, like I. I realized after I got sober that I couldn't get sober for my kids. You know I I don't know if I've shared this with you guys, cause I don't share this too often, cause it's still kind of fucking rubs me the wrong way but when my son was born, I didn't love him for like the first six months because I knew I knew where I was in my head and it wasn't anywhere near being in a position to be a father. I couldn't even be a father to his sister, who was four years old at that time. So trying to bring another child into my life at the time that he was born was not I knew. I knew I I wasn't anywhere near where I should be. And then it took me two years after he was born to finally go out and get sober. And when, when I, when I, when I went to rehab like cause I had tried to get sober, I had tried to fix my life doing it the way that I thought I should be doing it and nothing had worked. And then, when I got to rehab and I started learning some stuff about recovery and about myself and one of the things that I was told was like you can't get sober for anybody else other than yourself. Nobody can get you sober. You can't get sober for your kids. You can't get sober for your relationship. You can't get sober. Like the therapists aren't going to get you sober, your parents aren't going to get you sober None of that shit's going to get you sober. You know like you have to want it for yourself get you sober. You know like you have to want it for yourself and and for me.
Speaker 2:24 hours before I was in rehab, I was on suicide watch in the hospital. So I had gotten to a point where I was so fucking sick of the shit that I was doing that I didn't want to be here anymore. So I had beat myself into a state of complete fucking surrender. I I give up, man, like nothing I'm gonna do is gonna fix myself. And then that's kind of where for me, like you had said, eric, it was my rock bottom. You know like I didn't want to be here. I wasn't a good father, I wasn't going to work, I was doing all this stuff I wasn't supposed to do and that's kind of like what opened the door for me into being introduced to what the potential of a change could look like, you know, and in recovery, like I got a sponsor, like you know. And in recovery, like I got a sponsor, I got a man who's been a part of my life for the last three and a half years and on thursday I'm going up to toronto because it's his eight year celebration. And this guy was a fucking heroin junkie and he's been sober for eight years. So when I started talking to this gentleman, he would have been five years sober at the time and he was telling me about his shit.
Speaker 2:I I could identify with all of it, man. I could identify with the feelings and that's what it was with you guys. I can identify with all the feelings that severe hopelessness, that being fucking angry, that depression, the anxiety, being so crippled with anxiety that I couldn't even leave my house at one point, not sleeping because of the anxiety. Laying down in bed and your fucking brain turns on at 1130 at night, it's like, oh, now it's time to think. We haven't thought all day, we've been just on autopilot all day, but now that we're laying down and we're supposed to be resting, let's just fucking fire this thing on all cylinders, you know, and, and that's what it was for me.
Speaker 2:It was fucking giving up on my own ideas and like finally succumbing to the idea that I actually need help, but also being willing to accept that help when it was offered. You know, because as men we're, we're so. It's so instilled in us that like we've got to figure this out, and not not just for us, but for our kids, for our relationship, for everybody. That's what's instilled in us. We are the providers, we're the rock, we're the protectors, we're all these things, but we're all of these things for everybody else except for ourselves.
Speaker 3:Go ahead, no, go ahead, no, no, no. I just wanted to ask you guys a question on this.
Speaker 2:I thought you were done there.
Speaker 3:Have you guys ever caught yourself picking up someone else's bad vibes without realizing it? I got a follow-up question after that.
Speaker 1:Picking up their vibes. Yeah, you mean like because, or we mean like becoming like them yeah, yeah, because like they're being toxic.
Speaker 3:You know that shit spreads, obviously, so have you ever noticed yourself picking that up?
Speaker 1:oh, 100 relationships, like I mentioned earlier, about a girl I dated and just negative all the time, like nothing made her happy, it was just didn't matter what she did. You try to help, you try to. You know, and a lot of people are like that in relationships, like you know, your other person's supposed to be there to you know, push you sometimes and be supportive, and it didn't didn't matter what I did. And then, of course, then it's, you think, the worst, like it's all me, it's all me, she's like this because of me, you know, and then just that negative, didn't want to go out, didn't like that person, didn't like this person wasn't gonna go there.
Speaker 1:Now, like it, just it rubs off where. I didn't want to go anywhere, I didn't want to see this person, I didn't want to hang out with them, just because it was just that's what she was like. And when my friends all pulled me aside like dude you're becoming her was a big wake up call because you like, like you said, is, you are who you hang out with and you don't notice it yourself sometimes. And and when you're beside someone all the time, time, or you're with that friend all the time, you don't realize that you're starting to become them, yeah did you think?
Speaker 1:it's and you and oh yeah, well then I end up leaving her.
Speaker 3:Yeah but how did that go like when you try to confront her about it?
Speaker 1:oh, it's not, you don't worry, it's, it's, it's nothing, it's nothing and it's just no accountability, just it. It was one of those, right, and I just and it took people from the outside to be like you are changing dude, like you're not happy, you, and and when you're with someone all the time, just like you know a friend that you hang out with all the time, you don't realize it because they're the same. So when you're the same, how can you point that out? Right, because you're with them all the time, so that's rubbing off on you and you don't even realize it. Until other people are like man, like what's wrong with you, man? Like are you all right?
Speaker 1:And I was like that in the relationship, so definitely in a relationship, and even some friends, like I mentioned the friend, like even in your closer friend group at the time, until you, even when you get to a point and you can notice it like man, I'm starting to fucking be miserable.
Speaker 1:And it's just because of one person, man or group, and just like at work, like anthony said, one guy it changes like, especially in management, because it starts at the top and if you're like for construction head superintendent, if he's a miserable prick all day, dude, that entire job site feels that the entire job site, oh yeah, he, oh, million percent it does. People are bad energy, people are avoiding them walking around and it starts to bring you down and then you realize two, three, four months into your job and you're staying there like you're now miserable because I've done the shittiest jobs with the best people and it made that job so much easier and you didn't think about it because they were great people and I've done great jobs with the worst management ever and I hated going to work but I really liked the job.
Speaker 2:No-transcript because that'll ruin you, like that alone, the people that you work with. So, to answer your question, eric, about like other people rubbing off on you, I used to work with a guy who was, like I said, negative from the moment he showed up to work and it got to the point where I had the most fuck it attitude ever, because it's like this guy's miserable, he doesn't give a shit. So why do? Why would I give a shit? And then we're getting callbacks for quality because I don't. If he's not gonna fucking care, what's the point in me caring?
Speaker 2:And same thing, I'm just a miserable fuck by the end of the week because of who I'm working with and, let's be honest, I didn't do anything to change it. I didn't make an effort into changes, so I'm equally as guilty as him. But still, like it's, it's so easy to be infected by these types of things and and that's the statistic that you shared at the beginning joy. Like that's. That's what it is, that's what it causes. So, like to put it plain and simple, just, even if your fucking day sucks, just try to be positive well, what do you guys would say would be your approach?
Speaker 3:do you think it would be better to confront them directly if, like you, know this person's being negative or just distance yourself from it?
Speaker 1:uh, personally it depends like where I'm at. Where I'm at now in my life in general is like I will cut you, like cancer, like I am in such a good place that you can't bring me down and if you are one of those people that try, I will either cut you out or for someone that I have to deal with like yeah, for work, yeah I.
Speaker 1:I'm at the point where I'll just tell you to your face to shut up, because I can't stand. Listen to you. Bitch and wine, Right, and if I like my family's not like that, but a lot of family members are is you got to be able to distance yourself and cut? Cut it? You have to because it's always their problem and because, especially with family, you feel like obligated to keep trying to help them when they're not helping themselves.
Speaker 3:Well, if you tell them to shut up, do you think that they're going to change though, or do you think it's just going to make it more like once? Toxic, always toxic.
Speaker 1:I think they would. Again, it depends on the people, the atmosphere where you're at, but majority, because a lot of people don't say nothing and they just walk or they just like I don't want to deal with this guy, so they say nothing. But if it's in your face, sometimes people need to be called on their shit In order for them to, so that they can realize that they're actually being like that. Because I was called on my shit before and I didn't realize I was being like that. But once I was reminded hey, dude, what's your fucking problem? Then I'm like whoa, I didn't realize. I'm really sorry, because you get those right like I apologize, man, I didn't realize I was like that for so long. Let me try to make it better, be more aware of it. So some people would buy.
Speaker 1:Some people need that blunt truth like what is your fucking problem? Do you hate life? What is it? Because we're tired to listen to it. So sometimes you need to be like that with certain people, most people. They don't want confrontation, right, nobody really likes confrontation. But if you don't give the blunt truth, sometimes the people they would never know. So that's why they keep doing it.
Speaker 1:And sometimes when you get that in someone's face, then people are like, shit, maybe he's right, what's wrong, maybe. And then that maybe that could be the stepping stone to that guy realizing that he's got some issues he needs to figure out Right. So it it depends. But for me at this point, man, if you're in my face and I can't ignore you, I'm going to tell you like, dude, just shut up. And, just like I said to the people listening, if you're like that and you complain about your life and you do nothing about it and it's always poor me or you're acting like a victim in a problem that you've created, just shut up, just stop. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Nobody's going to feel sorry for you. I'm sorry. Let me ask you this, anthony I will help you. If you want to make changes and I'm able to help in some way, and you're tired of feeling this way, or you're tired of you know, you don't know where to look. You're trying to find a new job, whatever it is, and I'm able to somehow help you. I'm in. Find a new job, whatever it is, and I'm able to somehow help you, I'm in, let's do it. Let me help you. But if you're just gonna bitch and whine every week and just pour me, like dude, just get away from me, man, I'm not even gonna answer your phone calls, I'm sorry well, okay, like we talked on earlier, you know, sometimes you don't know.
Speaker 3:Maybe someone's just going through something right, maybe they're stressed, depressed, whatever. Anthony, where, where is the thin line of being empathetic and protecting yourself from negative negativity? Do you think like, where would you draw the line?
Speaker 2:so, first of all, I I think that Everybody needs to be called on their shit If that's the type of person that they are, regardless of being comfortable With confrontation or not. If you're not comfortable Confronting someone for their toxic behavior, you are enabling that toxic behavior, you're allowing it to happen. So, really, how upset can you be? And I'm guilty of it, I'm guilty of it, but, like joey said, like a lot of, like a lot of times people probably don't even realize they're like that. You know so. So, acknowledging it aware, yeah, making them aware, like hey, you're kind of being a dick, like what's wrong with you? Why are you so pissy today? Right, but in terms of knowing the fine line, I mean, it's all in how you approach it, right, like if I guess the situation to every situation is a little different, right so?
Speaker 2:yeah, the situation. It can be different, but also like it. It boils down to like how you communicate, like if you're going to communicate effectively, you can do it without being a complete prick about it. You know, some people literally just need to be told to shut the fuck up. But also you can approach a situation very calm, very demure, as the, as the fucking kids on TikTok are saying these days.
Speaker 3:Demure.
Speaker 2:Demure it's a new thing I can't.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, anyway.
Speaker 2:It all depends on how you approach it right and set boundaries health, health healthily and communicate effectively, then I I don't see a situation where that can't be accomplished. You know, regardless of of someone being miserable or you protecting yourself, either way you look at it, that's an effective approach in either situation if the person.
Speaker 2:If their reaction is a negative reaction, cool. That's when you set the boundary for yourself and you're not doing a disservice to anybody by doing that, especially yourself. That's when you detach. That's when you tell them to get the fuck away from you. But at least, if you approach it in a respectful and open-minded manner and communicate effectively, you're at least leaving the door open for them to give it. You're at least giving them an opportunity to handle it the same way that you want to handle it, if they don't fucking see you later. Thanks for your time. Don't fucking talk to me.
Speaker 3:Well, what do you guys think about? How would you um change this Like how could you see this coming? Say you see this coming, say you see it coming. What do you think you guys could do to keep things positive, to prevent someone from poisoning either the group you're in or the workspace or whatever it may be? What kind of tools do you think you could suggest that you've guys used in the past to you know, help change that around.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's. You know, it goes kind of. You know how I always say when you can't find good people, be good people. Well, it kind of relates the same. Now, if you're toxic all the time, the tools you would use Is to be complete opposite Of that and even have like a sarcastic side to that, when you're just Overly positive, when it brings them down If that makes any sense, Like you just can't let them affect you Killing with love. Yeah, like kill them with kindness.
Speaker 3:But, you have that.
Speaker 1:Almost that sarcastic sarcastic tone to it where you're just super happy and just overly happy, trying to like you know what I mean like knock out their negativity, yeah, and then, or you're just genuinely be that good people regardless, right, and and be able to tune that out.
Speaker 1:Because a lot of these toxic people like Anthony was saying how you approach them, how you talk to them and whatever but a lot of these toxic people, and that's why they're abusive in relationships, that's why they have anger issues is because they can't regulate their emotions properly, right, so you can't have a normal conversation with these people who are like that all the time because that's stemming from their childhood problems and their past traumas and that's why they're so angry all the time and negative all the time.
Speaker 1:The only difference is those people have never dealt with it. Yeah, so that's how they become like that. Because you're not born negative. You know this is all shit that we learned, or things that have happened that you, that has been created in your upbringing, the things that has happened to you, right? So these toxic people is people that just didn't deal with their problems ever, and that's where the anger and the toxicity comes out, because they chose not to take responsibility from the choices they made in their life. So now they're projecting on everybody else and sucking that energy out of everybody else.
Speaker 3:Yeah Right, Vampires man.
Speaker 1:Because toxic people will always focus on your reactions rather than, you know, to talking about it, right? Well, why are you being like that? Why this? Because it it takes away from them taking responsibility, right? True?
Speaker 2:that? What would be your answer to that question? You've been firing off solid questions the whole episode, eric. Let's hear one of your answers, bud um, communication man.
Speaker 3:You man, you know straight up, like you guys said, I would just talk to him and be like, hey, man, like what's going on right now to put you in this mood? You know, try to maybe figure it out, figure out where this is stemming from, where it's coming from, because maybe, you know, the guy's wife died, you know, and he's just not open up and he's having a bad day or a bad week or even a bad fucking year, you know it's all about. We always say this man, everybody is going through some shit. You know, we're all everybody. You know, don't judge, don't judge all the time. Maybe that person is just having a hard time and you know, you just need to communicate and figure it out. Maybe you could be life-changing for him. You never know. I mean, we have on this podcast. We've had people reach out to us. You know we've never met them before, but you know, just stuff resonates. Resonates what we talk about, you know.
Speaker 1:So you just never know and it's all about that man communicating and maybe there there's something deeper and too, I think there's a difference when, like someone you work with or someone you're dating or a friend, because you see it all the time, so you can, you know the difference. But, like you said, when it's people you just meet and they could be really struggling because we don't know what they're going through. You know, and that's why, like I said, if you can't find the good people to be the good people right, pay it forward. You know, when next time you're in in the drive-thru, pay for the coffee behind you, that right there, that small gesture, that $5 you just spent, could have made somebody's day huge. That's some. Because, for all you know, that person thinks that they got nobody, thinks that nobody loves them, thinks that they got no friends and they think that they're alone. And then just the act of kindness and it is. We talk you know, we've mentioned this a few times like it is so easy to be a good person. It is so easy, simple.
Speaker 2:You know the other thing that's cool to think about, too, though, is like everybody's got a story right. Everybody got to where they are some way or another. So like just being kind, like fucking sit and talk to someone. Like joey, I remember you talking about the gentleman you met on the lake. You remember talking about that guy like you know, like if you didn't take that fucking 20 seconds to have a simple conversation with that guy, you wouldn't have a clue what was going on. Like everybody out there has a story, and like you'd be amazed at some of the shit that people have been through. I used to have a neighbor. He was um, he was in a concentration camp. He had the fucking tattoo, the number on his wrist. Don't get me wrong. He was senile as fuck. He was like 98 years old, he was crazy, but yeah he was crazy before he passed.
Speaker 2:But, like man, if I would have just assumed as him, as a crazy old man next door, I never would have got to hear the story that I heard about him like fleeing poland and all that shit. Because I took the time to just and I was young, I was like 15 or 16 at this point but I took the time to have a conversation with someone Like it literally cost nothing to be fucking kind, even if you're in a bad mood.
Speaker 1:And when you're in a bad mood and people are starting To be kind to you, what does that do to you? It kind of brings you up a little bit and know that most of the time that the people are in a bad mood or just being negative, is it you're pouring that onto people that didn't create that right and people don't realize. They just come home and take it out on their wife, take it out on their kids miserable yelling, don't care, break a couple things. You know what I mean. But, man, if you take the time out of your day to just be kind, do something, you know you'll notice the energy shift. You know when someone's holding the door for you or you're saying just a simple thank you, let me get that for you, let me help you. You know you need you know. Do you want me to help you cross the street to an old lady? Fuck dude, it's, it's not hard, it really isn't.
Speaker 1:And it's really sad because most people are not like that, especially today. And it really bothers me that you go out there and you just see these people that don't even say thank you when you hold the door open for them going into a store. Yeah, I hate this. I I drive. It drives me up the wall, or you stop. That's not a crosswalk and you can tell that you're letting people cross the street. They don't even give you a wave.
Speaker 1:That just drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. Simple little thing. Thank you. How's your day? Have a good day now. I walk by people now hey, good morning, because I'm out at four in the morning doing my 75 hard again with my buddy and there is a couple of joggers at four, four, 30 in the morning, or people like I see the same old guy walking by hey, good morning, nothing dirty, look like. Is it that difficult? Just say good morning, you know, and if you're like that at four, 30 in the morning, I bet you the rest of his day is garbage.
Speaker 2:To be fair, I'd probably be like that at 4 30 in the morning too yeah, me too here's one here's one because you guys were construction. I know you guys had one at some point in your life. You ever have that old fucker. You don't know where he came from, but he's been there since before you got there and he's just a miserable old fuck, but he's the funniest person you ever met.
Speaker 3:He's like he's talking about Rory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, textbook bad apple, but he's the funniest fucking person you ever met.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. Me and Joey know a guy we worked with, remember Rory there, the old guy. He was grumpy man. Everybody, nobody, wanted to work with him. But you know what I got along with these guys. I understand, man, the guy's seen some shit. The guy was in vietnam, bro, you know what I mean yeah, you know, I just give it right back to me yeah, man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:But I got along with him. I mean, I I had a great time, but yeah, he was just old and grumpy. And I mean, who the fuck wants to be doing carpentry at 60 years old? No wonder he's grumpy man. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I feel it, yeah, and I understand it, and totally okay, you're allowed to be grumpy brother well, and two is like humor always comes from a dark place, right, yeah, yeah, and any comedian will tell you that robin williams said that it all it. You know it comes from a dark place because you're trying to make everybody else laugh when you're struggling, right, thinking that you're making yourself feel better. But, like you know, most people like they're dying inside. But if they're the loudest and happiest in the room, I bet you he's got the most problems guaranteed.
Speaker 2:Right. So that's why they say they always say check on your funny friends.
Speaker 1:They're a million percent. Yeah, boys, but uh, I don't know, what do you think, boys?
Speaker 3:I think I got to take.
Speaker 2:Yeah, boys, but uh, I don't know what do you think, boys, I think I gotta take a piss. That's what I'm thinking. All right, we out love you. See you next week. No, no, we'll close it out that was a really good episode.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was a really good. Always a pleasure with you guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah I enjoyed that voice.
Speaker 3:I genuinely did much needed to questions for you guys. I was just fucking like a machine gun.
Speaker 2:Bam bam bam I know I saw that fucking interviewer over here yeah, but it did my research yeah, I just want to say to you guys like this to me is is therapy.
Speaker 2:You know, I need this, probably more than you guys would would realize, and I'm I'm sure you guys have your moments too, where this, this is important. I mean, that's a shitty way to say that, holy fuck. Like we, we know this is important, but this has a bigger meaning than just coming on here and shooting the shit for an hour. You know what I mean. Like this thing, this thing to me is free therapy and the this thing to me is free therapy. And 100 the listeners to me are the validation that this thing is important, you know. So, like, if you are listening, like we fucking care, we want to hear from you, we want to hear the successes, we want to hear the struggles, we want to hear it all. Like we're here for a reason and the reason is to help people, but also to to fucking cheer you on when things are going good right. So if you guys are struggling or if you guys just want to fucking celebrate, man, hit us up, come on the show, shoot us an email.
Speaker 2:At the beginning, joey told you the email. I'll say it again rawmindspodcastgmailcom. Follow us on all social media platforms, you know. Shoot us a message. We all have tiktok. It's raw mindseric, raw mindsanthony, raw mindsjoey, and we have raw minds podcasts. Follow us on facebook, instagram. We're everywhere and we're not going anywhere. All right, it doesn't cost anything to be fucking kind. So tomorrow, go out and do something kind for somebody. Thanks for being a part of this, guys.
Speaker 3:I love you peace, bye, we'll see you next time.
