Raw Minds
Welcome to Raw Minds, the podcast where we explore the challenges and triumphs of men's mental health, single fatherhood, and daily life experiences. In each episode, we dive deep into the issues that go on in men's minds, sharing personal stories and insights that can help you better understand yourself and the world around you. Whether you're a single dad, dealing with mental health challenges, or simply looking for inspiration and guidance, this podcast is for you. So, sit back, relax, and join us on this journey of self-discovery and growth.
Raw Minds
Raw Minds S2 Ep. 4 - The Faces of a Narcissist: Healing from the Hidden Wounds
In Raw Minds S2 Ep.4 - The Faces of a Narcissist: Healing from the Hidden Wounds, we take a deep dive into the intricate and often misunderstood world of narcissism. Narcissistic traits can appear in many forms, but how do we distinguish between someone who simply exhibits these traits and a true narcissist?
This episode uncovers the subtle yet critical differences between possessing narcissistic qualities and full-blown narcissistic personality disorder. We explore the fine line that separates the two, shedding light on how these behaviors manifest in relationships, workplaces, and social settings. From overt manipulation and control to more insidious forms of emotional harm, we break down how these traits affect those around them.
But recognizing these behaviors is only the first step. We also focus on the emotional wounds left behind—often unseen yet deeply impactful—and discuss practical strategies for healing. Whether you’ve encountered a narcissist in your personal life or are struggling with the effects of someone displaying narcissistic traits, this episode provides essential insights and tools for recovery.
Join us as we unmask the faces of narcissism and guide you on the path to emotional resilience, empowering you to heal and rebuild stronger than before.
we are back once again to the show that shatters the silence on men's mental health. Welcome again to the show that shatters the silence on men's mental health. We are unedited, unfiltered.
Speaker 2:And, as always, we are going raw.
Speaker 1:I'm Anthony and I'm Joey.
Speaker 3:And I'm Eric, and we're your hosts.
Speaker 1:And welcome to Raw Minds. Yeah, buddy, we are back once again for you guys just tuning in, smash that like button, hit the subscribe. We are on all platforms Across the board and we are Across the world and a whole bunch of countries and we continue to grow and we are doing this show To give back, give insight, give you know, just some talk shit about all the stuff that we've been through and try to help you guys listening. That's been through a lot of the same shit we've had to deal with for 30 years of trauma and abuse.
Speaker 1:So make sure you guys check us out. All platforms subscribe YouTube, spotify, itunesunes, tiktok, you name it. We're there. Just type in raw minds, we will pop up. We're everywhere. That being said, let's fucking do this again do it season two narcissism yep narciss buddy, going straight to the fucking jugular with that one. Yeah yeah, this is a heavy one. The faces, the faces of narcissism. Yep, that's a.
Speaker 3:You guys are all fucking.
Speaker 1:We're what? We're all narcissists.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're all fucking narcissists. You know what? That's the trend, man. So I guess you guys look at your faces. That's the trend. Like we were talking before, man, everybody just calls everybody a narcissist dude it's crazy if you ask anybody about.
Speaker 1:If you ask anybody about their ex. Oh, what happened? He was a narcissist, she was a narcissist. Every fucking ex on happened. He was a narcissist, she was a narcissist. Every fucking ex on the planet was a narcissist. Yep, every one of them. Oh, I didn't. Uh, yeah, it ended because he was a narcissist uh, just yeah, I couldn't believe it it is.
Speaker 1:Every single person is a narcissist these days. It doesn't matter, and it's the easiest way for someone to not take accountability or responsibility for their own actions and choices in. You know, in those relationships whether it it's romantic or they're friends, it doesn't matter but it's a real easy way to block out their own problems and accountability by just putting it on somebody else and automatically they're a narcissist. Yeah, no, I was this and I was that, but they just treated me like shit and they were a narcissist. But where's your accountability? Where did you go wrong? It takes two. It's always both ways, right, but that is the easiest way, especially nowadays. Yeah, narcissist, so I feel better because I did it.
Speaker 1:I remember going to therapy after a breakup and I used that to try to make myself not feel so fucking heartbroken by telling myself in my head that she was a narcissist. And I even had the counselor believe in half of it from the stories that I would tell to make myself feel better because I wasn't taking accountability of realizing like I was the fucking problem. You know it took a long time to get there, but a lot of people these days that's what they do, right, it makes it easier for them to either get over that person or move away from that person by just blaming them, and the number one blame for any of it is always narcissists. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3:Every problem you hear, is narcissists. Let's touch on that. Let me ask you a question, just so we don't lose track of that. So when you said like you went through those things right, what traits did you show that like was narcissistic when you were going through that?
Speaker 1:like warning signs like uh, no, no, like like yeah, I guess you could say that, yeah, okay yeah, what were the traits of the?
Speaker 3:part of like when you're doing that, you said, when you're talking to your counselor and you're like almost making her believe. You know what I mean. Like when you're just just saying that, like when you're just talking there. So what were the traits? Like, what were you trying to make her believe? Like, was it like like trying to turn her on her? So then, like you look like this hero, like what was it? What was the trait?
Speaker 1:that you were trying to. It was kind of. You know, when I look back, as I remember sitting there in my sessions and and it wasn't me being a narcissist, I was just believing because I was, so I was hurt that I would feel better, uh, by telling myself that she was and I would find things in. You know, if you actually look at what the warning signs are of a narcissist or narcissistic tendencies, right, and then I would look in the stories in my head, I would find those things and look for those signs and then use that and only talk about that. So it was more of a tendency that maybe she did. And then I would have the therapist now looking at me like yeah, you're right, she probably was a narcissist. And then I would feel better because I was hurting and I didn't want to feel the heartache by putting it on her when she wasn't even there. So I you know what I mean. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, like shadowing the good kind of thing, right shadowing the good stuff and just highlighting out the bad. And let's be honest, man, we all do it. We all do it. You know what I mean everybody sees you can do like I think you've mentioned this in other podcasts or other episodes we've done is you know, you do a hundred million good things but you do one bad thing and everybody remembers the bad thing. Right, it's like that. So like we bring up the bad things and then they matter more than the good things usually.
Speaker 3:Well, let me just read you this here Like.
Speaker 2:This is the definition of like narcissistic personality disorder. Narcissistic personality disorder is marked by excessive self-centeredness, a lack of empathy and a focus on self-aggrandizement at the expense of others. So you are making yourself look better at the cost of other people.
Speaker 2:Like you're bringing people down to put yourself above right and and that's typically and, like you said, er, eric, like we've we've all done it. Like I remember doing it younger, like someone pissed me off. Well then, like I go around and I talk all this shit about the other person to make me feel better about myself, that's a narcissistic trait, right? Like we all have narcissistic traits. That doesn't make me a narcissist. The the reason I know that I don't suffer from narcissistic personality disorder is because I have an understanding and a level of accountability that I can take um when it comes to my actions.
Speaker 2:And I guess, like for me, the easiest way to kind of differentiate between like self-love and self-care and narcissism is self-love, is love from the inside out, and then to me, narcissism is like love from the outside in, and it's not even love, it's validation, right. Like it's yeah, it's pulling from everything else. Like you need to make me feel good about myself, and I'm gonna keep pulling on you to make me feel good about myself, and I'm going to keep pulling on you to make me feel good about myself so that I don't have to do it myself. But the minute you do me wrong, well then it's your fucking fault that I feel this way and now I'm the victim, but the whole time I've been taking from you. Narcissists are essentially just takers. That's all they do. They take. There's there's no sense of empathy, there's no looking at the other side.
Speaker 3:That's what it is right no, it's true, man, they just suck. They're vampires a lot of times, right. They just suck it right out of you, man, you know well, yeah, like what do you think?
Speaker 2:to be clear, like there's this huge trend of like if someone sets a boundary, well, they're automatically a narcissist. You know, like the term narcissism or narcissist is like such a fucking trend right now, and I feel like it has to do with people not respecting other people's boundaries, right, because, like we had talked about on the phone the other night like I think it was last night, right and we were talking about how, like, self-love involves healthy boundaries and stuff like that, well, a narcissist doesn't want anything to do with fucking boundaries.
Speaker 2:The minute you tell me that I don't have unlimited access to you in any way that I want, then that's a fucking problem, so I'm going to try to knock you down so that I can cross that line. If you don't, let me cross that line. Now we have a fucking problem.
Speaker 3:Right, it's like Kool-Aid, that guy that comes smashing through the wall. That's pretty much what it is right yeah it pretty much is here. Well, what do you guys think about social media? Do you think that social media is encouraging narcissism even more so?
Speaker 2:I think social media is like a breeding ground for narcissism, because it's the easiest and most effortless way to get validation. You know like definitely you make a post.
Speaker 2:We were just talking about that on the last episode about anger and how we can stay in people who posted like air the dirty laundry out. But on the other side too, like it's, narcissism on social media is so easy because it's like you can post anything and you watch those likes like that's your validation, that's your outside validation. These people that I added in high school, who now sell sensei out of their fucking basement. They're giving me a like, so that means that they like me. You know they. They lack the ability to validate themselves from within so they get other people to do it for them. And I've got yeah, I've got people on my social media who. I've got those regulars who are posting four or five times a fucking day. I'm not saying they're narcissists, but that's a telltale sign that they have narcissistic traits.
Speaker 3:It's such a fucking hard line to to differentiate between the two you know, definitely, definitely, because then you got self-respect in your go ahead.
Speaker 1:Joy, sorry no, no, I was just gonna say to kind of go with that is. You know, there's that fine line, but it's actually a fact that 85 percent of the people that say that they, that they're a narcissist, are actually not. They just have those tendencies, just like anthony said. So, to actually be a narcissist is your. Your numbers are actually a lot lower than people think they are, but because it's such a trend with the social media and it's just, you know, what's funny is being a narcissist. They don't have the ability to self-reflect or take responsibility.
Speaker 1:Yet most people that use that to call somebody that or to say that my ex was that is also lacking ability to take responsibility. So you know what I mean. It's like they're not taking any responsibility for a part, and you know that person, if it was a relationship, could have done the most horrific, vile, you know hurtful things. But in that there's a part of that relationship that you were doing something that you did, something that you know, and people act out differently, way different than some people, and do things that you know we don't agree with because of what this person did. So they act out this way and that's how they show their you know their anger or their revenge or whatever, right.
Speaker 1:But in any relationship there's a reason for the like 99 of the reason, like. There's a reason why people do the things that they do, and not that we agree with it, but there's a reason. So when a relationship, for example, is done, that person's easy gonna say well, say well, he's a narcissist, she's a narcissist. But they're not taking any accountability or responsibility. So it's weird how it kind of contradicts itself like that. Right, because a real narcissist can't do that. But yet you have people that are throwing it out there in this trend to make themselves feel better about the situation and just calling them a narcissist, like I was trying to do to make myself feel better because I was hurting. But yet that's the exact trait of a narcissist is what people are doing and not taking accountability.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of fucked up how it works, like that well, it's a weird thin line, right.
Speaker 3:That's what it's all about. Like they want to be acting superior, right at the end of the day, that a narcissist wants to be superior over everybody. Have the compliments, you know, and, like you said, have no empathy. You know it's, it's their bubble, you everybody lives in their world, and then that comes into victim mentality. It just follows right after that, right yeah like they're.
Speaker 1:They're good with thank yous and thank you cards, but they're they're really bad at like true gratitude yeah, they don't understand it.
Speaker 2:No, so if we're talking about narcissism and narcissistic traits, here's a fun question what would you say the traits that you have not saying you guys are narcissists, but like what would you say the traits that you have Not saying you guys are narcissists, but like? What would you say are some narcissistic traits from your recent past that you would say that you've, you've had, I would say selfish.
Speaker 3:I've been selfish, but I mean at the same time that's a fine line. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:How do you know if it's self-care or being a narcissist? Because sometimes with self-care you have to be selfish and you have to put yourself first. So it's kind of it's a hard one, but definitely selfish, I would have to say.
Speaker 2:Look at, joey, just fucking thinking over there. If I was to look back.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, if I was to look and I actually I was told this and it wasn't like, oh, you're a narcissist or anything like that, but for a trait. And when I look back I remember doing it and I don't do it on purpose, don't do it now. You know there's all part of your growth and you know, do it on purpose, I don't do it now. You know there's all part of your growth and you know you kind of, because I'm not a narcissist, but we all have the trait, or have had the traits and done certain things, of a narcissist. And mine was like.
Speaker 1:Mine was more like E egocentric and E excuse me, egocentricity, where it's like I could hijack a conversation and then flip it. Yeah, that's a big word, right? Yeah, man, holy ego, ego, egocentric. So I could basically hijack a conversation and turn it and make it all about me because I in me, like I can relate to everything. So when, like, especially on a date, because I know I was guilty of it and I was told it and I don't realize, so I come across as like a big ego because I'm talking about me, me, me, me, but really I'm just thinking I'm relating to you because I can. I've been through everything. So everything that you say, well, I can relate to that, I can relate to that, I can relate to that. So I just go off and I basically hijack the conversation and make it about me.
Speaker 1:And that is a big trait and a warning sign in a real narcissist is being able to just always making it about them in the conversations and whatnot. Right, so it comes across, while real narcissists that's a big ego. But I came across sometimes as having a big ego because I always talked about myself. But I was just an open book. I can just go on and on about fucking. If you talk to me about something and then all of a sudden I can relate to that, I just go off and I don't do it on purpose, it's just conversation to me.
Speaker 1:but then what this word Ego-centric to?
Speaker 3:me. But then what? This word ego, egocentric or egocentricity are you? Are you googling it? No, I'm just.
Speaker 2:I've never heard it before so it's, I'm just it's, it's ego-centered, is what it is okay, okay, I just never okay, it's just new to me.
Speaker 2:So I'm just curious, right, that's all yeah, crazy and and to be fair, joey, I I totally understand where you're coming from with that, because like that's what we do in recovery is like I can only share on my experience I'm not here to talk about, like I can't speak for someone else, right? So, and again, it's the same thing as the selfishness it's like where is that line? So I think for me, like when it comes to certain situations, I have to question my motives. Say, I'm going to remove someone out of my life. Why am I removing them from my life? Am I removing them because I'm jealous of them? Am I removing them because they're not telling me the things I want to hear? Are they serving a good purpose here?
Speaker 2:All right, so in terms of narcissistic traits for myself, I can recall a lot of situations. I just got to look at that fucking thing again where I would make the other person look bad to make me feel better about myself. You know, like this is pre-sobriety. You know like I would always make the other person seem like the fucking problem, so that it would take all the heat off me, or like another good example is like those people who have those friends who will tell them exactly what they want to hear, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:We've talked about this before. Like having I would rather have friends who are brutally honest with me than people who are just going to tell me the nice shit that I want to hear, like you're just adding fuel to the fucking fire. At that point I don't want people to tell me what I want to hear. I want people to tell me what I need to hear and if I'm being a problem, tell me I'm being a fucking problem. Yeah, no doubt that's the traits that I feel like I've shown in the past.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't call super recent, but definitely before Would you say Karn Artist is one of them, because when I was a kid man I used to be a little fucking Karn Artist. I'll tell you that yeah in what sense I don't know, would that be like a narcissistic thing, not really just a little asshole, I guess?
Speaker 1:no, that's what I was. That's just a fucking, that's just a being a fucking prick yes, use Carmen's or use Carson that sounds like me in my past, like when I was younger.
Speaker 3:I definitely that's just being that's just being sleazy buddy, you know what I did?
Speaker 3:I was, I got, I was probably 12 years old, me and my buddy Will. We're we're good buddies back then, we don't, I don't know. Anyways, he's a thing, still a good guy. Um, we, we had spray paint. We, uh, spray painted my neighbor's house Different colors, that's, that's the little prick. I used to be man, and then it's kind of funny though. So my dad shows up and gives me shit, and he asked to see will's hands, because you know you got spray paint all over your hands, and he's like I'm not allowed to show you my hands, and then just takes off running. And you know what? I deserved it, man. I was a little shit and I had to wipe all that fucking spray paint off the side of the house. I deserved it, but yeah, so makes sense. Little car notice, little shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not anymore, though yeah, but that that's not a a disorder, that's just stupidity oh yeah, I've done a lot of stupid shit in my life man.
Speaker 2:Give it five years and it'll be a disorder. Bro, we're all going to be autistic by 2027. Let's be real, Fuck.
Speaker 1:We're all narcissists already. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Overstimulated narcissists. So I just want to touch on, though, so, what you said, joey, when you're like saying, because you're, you're, uh, talking, I'm talking to the person, right, I would say more or less, so that's passion too, what you have, right, you're passionate about what you're talking about, so you're excited, so you're just, you know, pushing that out there, so it is like it's a, it's a thin line too.
Speaker 1:That also can come from nerves too right, like when you're with someone's nervous. Either they're quiet or they don't shut up yeah and they just talk and talk and talk because they're nervous, or especially if you're on like a date right, and it's like wow, this girl's beautiful and fucking I don't know what I'm gonna say. And then she says something and then I just go off and then by the end like this guy's got a big head all he did, did was talk about himself.
Speaker 1:I'm like, I didn't mean to Like, I just I can relate to everything that you were saying.
Speaker 2:And I thought I was just being open book and conversational, like I can talk.
Speaker 1:I don't just sit there and be like and people are like this guy's boring, it's just. I came across as more of a big ego, but it wasn't like oh, look at me, look at my car, it was just life. But I would just go on about myself, because I remember I got feedback from my buddies are like yeah, she told me that you just talked about yourself the whole time. I'm like damn it, I didn't, fucking.
Speaker 3:I'm like I was just talking.
Speaker 1:That's all to me I'm just talking, I did it again, but that is a, definitely that's a.
Speaker 1:That's a trait in narcissism, right, because they just want to talk about themselves and hype themselves up, right, and that's a big trait. And again it goes back to most people are not narcissists, they just have these traits or they have one of these traits and that's one of them, right. And I know for a fact that I'm not one, because I have probably more empathy than most people, just like you guys, you know, because I have probably more empathy than most people, just like you guys, you know, and I have my heart on my sleeve, man, and my fucking. So I know I'm, I'm okay there, but I definitely have had, you know, the traits. Or even, like Anthony said, you know you could you put people down, especially on like social media, when you can like. I remember when I was struggling and you could call somebody out on their bullshit, like just on the internet or on Facebook, just to make them look bad, and then people are laughing because you're the one that called them out on it and you feel better about yourself because now I just embarrassed you in front of your fucking social media. You know what I mean. But that's a trait, but that's also a reflection as well of where I was in my life and anybody else that hates on you and sends these messages and tries to cut you down.
Speaker 1:So there's another fine line Are you just miserable in your own life? That's why you're trying to have hate on people and cut them down to make you feel better. Or are you actually a narcissist? Right, because there's two other ways to look at it as well, because you get the miserable people all the time. So are they narcissists? No, they're not. They just have the tendencies and they're just miserable in their own life, because nobody that is doing better than you and is happy and doing positive things in their life will go out of their way to put you down. That's below you. Either they're going to encourage you or they just don't say nothing. The only people that talk shit are the people that aren't happy with themselves.
Speaker 1:But that's definitely a trait in narcissism is cutting people down and trying to make yourself feel better. So again, which one is it? Is it actually being a narcissist or are you just a miserable prick who fucking hates the job that you have in the fucking house you live in and you're just taking shots at people, because it might make you feel a little bit better. If someone's laughing at them, it takes the attention off of you for being a fucking loser and not doing anything with your life. You know what I mean. So again, there's another fucking fine line. So really like I don't know that's again.
Speaker 2:It's such a trend and it's so easy to call people that just to not take responsibility in themselves, right, yeah, the biggest between an actual narcissist and someone with narcissistic traits is that a real narcissist lacks empathy, the ability to feel empathy and self reflect, you know, and I feel like the biggest confirmation for all three of us here is that we are literally here to self reflect on ourselves, right, like a narcissist wouldn't be able to sit here and say the shit that we're saying about ourselves and confidently say like these are the things about me that are the problem, whereas a narcissist would just make it all about them and how they're not that thing.
Speaker 2:We are parts of those things, but we are not narcissists.
Speaker 3:Where do you think it stems from narcissism yeah, where do you think it stems from? That's a good question boom, boom, boom, boom, boom google traumas I guess so I mean, everything comes from there, right yeah, but you don't.
Speaker 1:I think it stems. I think it when you look at all of what a narcissist is. I think that stems from how you were raised to traumas in your life to make you be that way where it's all about you, you cut people down, you have no empathy like they're. It's like you're desensitized as a child to empathy and on how you treat people and you know you could have serious. A narcissist could have had serious abandonment issues or I don't know. I'm just guessing on my opinion that's what I think a lot of that is all.
Speaker 1:It all stems from your upbringing and what you went through to make you that way Right, just like when you sign up just like you sign up for you sign up for the army and you go overseas for four years and you're watching your friends getting blown up and this and that you're fucked.
Speaker 1:It changes you, right. So you're coming back and you got the PTSD. You're all fucked up. You're not the same. You're now have anger issues and this and this because of shit that you've seen and done in your life.
Speaker 1:Well, I think this is me just talking. What I think is all this stems, obviously, from the things that you've seen in your life as a child how your parents raised you to become somebody like that you know you were. I think these people were molded into that from, and a lot of it probably wasn't their fault, but that's just how the things that they've seen, the things that they've grown up in, and just like anybody whether you're a narcissist or not a lot of these things and horrible things that's happened to us, especially as children, and the things that weren't our fault, change you for the rest of your life. Some people don't know how to deal with it for don't know how to deal with it still, and it happened 20 years ago and it changed them Right.
Speaker 1:So I think this is I believe that this is, you know, that few percent that ends up like this because of all their traumas and shit and the way they were raised. That few percent that ends up like this because of all their traumas and shit as and the way they were raised. And then there's people that just don't know how to deal with their shit and they're always depressed, and then there's that kind of category. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So I think this is just a stem from. That's what I believe, that's that's not me, that's not. You know facts out of a book, but when people are a certain way, it comes from somewhere. A guy isn't in a great mood, comes home from work and then all of a sudden starts swinging for no reason. There's always a reason. Is he frozen? Just like I said, I mentioned that book.
Speaker 3:I read a long time ago.
Speaker 2:It looks like it just froze.
Speaker 1:People are like well, what's wrong with him? And say well, what happened to you?
Speaker 3:I mean for me, I think it's also, yeah, like a lack of love or something like that. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean and they didn't get that.
Speaker 3:Yeah or something, whatever it may be.
Speaker 1:So then they didn't get that, so then they project when did that come from? They weren't born with no empathy, real quick just to get into this whole thing.
Speaker 2:I dated this girl.
Speaker 1:And I mean their family is very wealthy, and her mom never spent.
Speaker 3:Really time with her. She would just give her money, pretty much pay off her daughter all the time. So she would act out, you know, to get attention, because her mom wouldn't give her attention. So she would do all these bad things because then her mom would give her attention. So no matter what kind of attention, at least her mom was still giving her that attention. Yeah, you know. I'm not saying that she's a narcissist or anything like that, but I mean it's just, it's a way of like a path maybe towards that right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I would agree with both of you as well. Like I feel like narcissism would come from this lack of attention as a child and not getting the validation as a child.
Speaker 2:But I actually looked it up and you know what it is. It's the complete fucking opposite of that, because I'll just read it to you. The cause is likely complex. Narcissistic personality disorder may be linked to environment, parent-child relationships with either too much adoration or too much criticism that don't match the child's actual experiences and achievements. So essentially, what would happen is these these kids would grow up with, with all this attention, and then get into the real world with people like and not get that attention that they got from their, their parents right so now they try to feed and pull in all that attention and try to get that attention from everyone around them.
Speaker 2:And it's again it all. It all stems from childhood 100, but that's what it's. It's saying here is like it comes from the over. Uh, what's the fucking word? Too much adoration and too much criticism okay.
Speaker 3:So almost like, uh, putting someone on a pedestal, yeah, and in them, yeah, okay, I. I mean like I guess you could say like a lot of these, like famous people, man, you know we have to drive the best cars and stuff like that. You know, drive, wear the best clothes. I only wear Gucci, I only you know what I mean, stuff like that I guess in a sense, Mm-hmm no.
Speaker 3:I would agree. That's and that's why, like a lot of I guess you could say like a lot of famous people are people that are rich and they raise these kids, and a lot of these kids are getting spoon-filled or fed with a golden spoon pretty much. You know what I mean. And then, like you said, when they come out in the real world, they should think that everybody should respect them. But let's face it, respect is earned man.
Speaker 2:This whole generation.
Speaker 3:You have to like you. You can give someone, but it has to grow. You earn it over time, right?
Speaker 2:yeah so. So here's a question. It's kind of off of narcissism a little bit, but like how do you, how do you feel about your children growing up in the society that we have now, compared to the, the generation that we grew up in? Because it's a, it's a, it's a totally different fucking world than when we were, we were kids. You know what I mean. And like, gentle parenting the way we parent, like you can't even raise your fucking voice in the grocery store without the cops getting called that on you, when your own kids right when I was a kid I got spanked.
Speaker 2:I mean, I wouldn't spank my kids now, but there's there's certain scenarios where if they're doing something fucking wrong they deserve some form of consequence. But there's parenting now where they get none of that and then they get all of the attention and I've seen it firsthand with with children. Like they get all this attention and my first thought is like when that kid gets into school he's gonna have a rude fucking awakening because mommy and daddy aren't gonna be there anymore. And now you're going by the rules of the schools and you're with a whole bunch of different kids and it's going to be a problem like this. This whole thing's going to be a problem.
Speaker 2:I was even I was working at a job the other week and this woman was a um, a bus monitor, and she was telling me about how disgusted she is in in in the lack of control they have or the lack of rules they have in the schools anymore. Like oh yeah, there's no dress code anymore. Like she told me she works at a public school and she said there was a girl who showed up the one day and her boobs were hanging out the bottom of her shirt. We're talking like fucking 13 years old man, that's not okay.
Speaker 2:So question one why the fuck are you sending your kid to school like that? Two, now, these these teachers and these these people who work in schools, they don't have enough, they don't have authority to do anything, so it's a fucking free-for-all. Like. I'm genuinely scared for my kids, like my kids in this day and age, you know, like we're getting to that age where we're starting to complain about life, like back in my fucking day. We didn't. We didn't get to wear what we wanted to school. Our shorts had to be below the knees and your belly button.
Speaker 3:So it took me four days just to get to school, you know uphill both ways in the snow. Yeah, I hear you. Man, it's the snow.
Speaker 2:yeah, I hear you man, it's, it's messed up, everything's messed up. That's the world we live in, you know. But that's what I mean like, do you guys feel like narcissism is going to like? The reason it's a trend, or the reason it's growing into a trend is is because the lack of boundaries that society is putting on everything 100, 100, I believe.
Speaker 3:So I mean narcissists. Narcissistics, they there's no such thing as boundaries to them, right, yeah, well, here let me ask you guys a question here. What do you think? Okay, so how, what would be the? How would you set a boundary with a narcissist? Uh, without trying to do as minimal conflict as possible? What would be Like? How would you approach?
Speaker 2:Like setting a boundary, or like enforcing a boundary in a situation. Detach, get the fuck out of there. Give yourself the space. Give them the space, because that's a consequence to them, right?
Speaker 1:They don't like consequences, so you know it's going to be a fucking problem, so get out and the number, the number one way, they said, to torture a real narcissist is to reduce their significance yes once you reduce their significance and don't make them up on a pedestal and you can just, like anthony said, detach from them, it'll fucking drive them nuts. Yeah, that's the only way they don't like.
Speaker 2:It's not the validation that they they care about, it's their superiority, so you take that away from them. They have nothing yep well, that's what it is they want to have they want to have, uh, power over everything.
Speaker 3:Right, they want to be. If you walk, if they walk in the room, they want everybody to look at them. You know what I mean? That's, that's at the end of the day. That's what it is. Look at me, look at me. I'm the best.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, maybe I am a narcissist. I'm a narcissist. Walk into the room.
Speaker 3:What, except I'm not the best. So do you guys think, though, it being a narcissist, you learn it, or do you think you're born with it? At the same time too? I know we touched on too much love, but I mean, do you think also, you can be born with it or you just learn it, like you know how, like there's generational, you can pass on generational trauma. Do you think you can pass that down as well?
Speaker 1:I think you can pass down for sure. Like that because a lot of people don't realize how real generational trauma is is like all the shit as parents, especially that we don't deal with the heavy trauma shit that we've pushed down the abandonment issues, this and the abuse that I never talked about and when I was a child and dude, if you don't deal with it, your children will deal with it. Facts Look it up, it's a fact. You will pass on that to your children.
Speaker 1:I just had this conversation with my mom last week and she didn't know because my mom wrote a book and she was raped when she was younger and all this stuff. She went through really hard and fostered a fucking drug addict mother. All this and she didn't know because my mom never dealt with her shit ever. You know, in that sense she never really seeked to help she. And when I talked to my mom briefly about probably a couple weeks ago and she's like I didn't know that, I'm like, yeah, that's a real thing. So I believe, since you asked this question, that I think there's a lot of, you know, um, a lot of the list inside of being a narcissist that comes with that you know, so I I wouldn't say that you're born with it to be.
Speaker 1:You can't be born a narcissist, but I think because you pass down those generational traumas that most people don't deal with, inside of that is these traits of a narcissist for sure yeah, I believe that 100, and that's actually a good question.
Speaker 1:So I I didn't want to answer so you know when I yeah, really good answer too yeah, yeah, you know, like kind of what I said earlier, like you're not born with no empathy. There's certain things that you were taught and you were raised by and you see, but then there's the other side. Like I just said, if there's a lot of this list of you know what a narcissist is stems from the generational trauma that is passed down to your children from your parents. So well, million percent, I I agree with that too.
Speaker 3:Well, let's face it, man, we're all born, you know, pure as babies. Babies are pure man, you know. You look at a baby, brand new baby. They're looking right through your fucking soul. You know what I mean. And then you grow up and then we get fucked, it's true. But uh, I got, I got a little fun fact for you guys. Do you guys uh, know where the narcissistic comes from? Or narcissist comes from the term the term?
Speaker 1:yeah, like where the term narcissist comes from. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, enlighten, us, dr Phil. No, I'm not.
Speaker 3:No, I'm not Okay, it's from a Greek mythology. It's Greek actually. So there is this guy, narcissist, and he was always in love with his reflection in the water, and that's where narcissist came from from.
Speaker 2:Okay, that sounds like joey, I'm just kidding brother, that sounds like zoolander, that's zoolander right, yeah, what is it? Was it blue steel? Blue steel? Yeah, blue steel. So when did?
Speaker 1:you realize you wanted to be? When did you realize you wanted to be a male supermodel? Well, it was in grade two and I walked by the cafeteria and I see my reflection in the lunch spoon and I thought man, you are ridiculously good looking. Is that what he says? That's like that. Yeah, that's, that's, that's exactly it. And that's the same as that guy Just always looking at his, looking at his reflection in the fucking water. That's fucking Zoolander right there.
Speaker 3:But that's it, man. That's true man. It's the same look, it's the same. Look, that was a good show, I liked it. Or they're pouring fucking gas all over each other.
Speaker 1:Actually, it's funny you say that Water fight and they're pouring gas all over each other, but we're talking about our kids, my son Okay, this is a little off-topic, just for a second.
Speaker 3:Yeah, whatever Every single kid.
Speaker 1:Every single kid has the I don't know about over on Anthony's side, the exact same haircut. Every single one of them, Every boy from the ages of fucking 12 to 18, they all look like fucking alpacas. And my son has the same haircut. They do the same thing, Just like we're talking about this reflection in the water. Every window, every car window, every fucking window in the mall, my son stops and he's like like this, doing the hair. It's cool.
Speaker 1:I mean he's 14,'s 14, right good for him, he's trying to be fucking slick slick rick, but it's just funny to watch right.
Speaker 2:Did you guys not have the fucking hair flip when you guys were kids? Where?
Speaker 1:your hair was like all flipped to one side and you just walk by somewhere, flick your head no oh no, you know what the hairstyle, our hairstyle that I, I remember was, you would slick it forward and then you just spike the bangs, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I remember that one.
Speaker 1:It had a fade on the side, but you just have like straight, flat forward and then you just roll up your bangs a little bit. So it's just spiky in the front.
Speaker 3:It's only like two inches or whatever. Mine was totally different. I was hanging out with the asians so I was all kind of short with the big, long, nammer bangs and the fu manchu. The fu manchu bro, no fu manchu. We used to wear. What is it? North face, uh, puff, north face jackets with the white terrorways champs, white terrorways oh yeah, yeah, you had the the puffy jackets with the yeah, or we oh buddy that was.
Speaker 1:That was a horrible style.
Speaker 3:Horrible style, or what is it? The Indian motorcycle jackets. But we weren't allowed at Metrotown anymore because they're gang-affiliated. So they banned Indian motorcycle jackets from Metrotown a long time ago. Stupid, stupid days, but you know what? I'm glad I went through it. I I learned a lot of shit and it put me in the seat right now talking to you guys.
Speaker 2:So yeah, man, it was worth it, every fucking terrible decision. I got a quote.
Speaker 1:I got a question. I got a question. I got a question for you guys. Sure, do you like? Because you guys are in a place where you can like, uh, be self-aware and look back at it properly in a clear mind, not just be like, yep, that was a narcissist. Do you think in your dating history that the women you have dated, or an ex, was genuinely a narcissist, or do you feel like they just had some traits and you?
Speaker 2:I, I have one for sure, one for sure I do. And then the other two serious relationships, no, no, my most everybody's dated one yeah, my most recent one, for sure. But there's also with my ex, there was that borderline personality disorder, which is like they kind of go hand in hand, like they're two different disorders but they kind of tie together. So it's essentially the same thing, but like yeah, and I hate to say it, like cause I don't, I don't want to label someone a narcissist, cause I feel like a narcissist doing it.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, like it's. It's a terrible thing because it's a disorder, right. So it's not like they can medicate and fix it, like it takes, like that's therapy and learning tools, like there's no way there's no quick fix with it. Same with fucking recovery man. It's not like I can take a pill and stop being addicted to drugs, like it's. It's constant work to to maintain what I have. So I couldn't imagine dealing with like that type of disorder, like depressions. Depression sucks most days. You know what I mean yeah, yeah no kidding.
Speaker 2:So dealing with that and like struggling to find like like. How would you?
Speaker 3:the question I have is, like, how would you differentiate between yeah like genuine feelings and narcissistic feelings it's hard, man, unless they're like fucking, like like full out, you know, balls to the wall, flaming narcissist. You know what I mean at the it's really hard to tell it really is because, like like we said, everybody has narcissistic tendencies and I think we've all dated someone that was a narcissist, or we've been even a narcissist in a situation. Maybe that person just brings that tendency out in you.
Speaker 3:You know, I mean, sometimes you date someone that you know, you you may think is everything's cool, and then a couple months go by and they bring that out of you. They bring the bad out of you, and it's not necessarily they're a bad person or you're a bad person, but just your two auras, I guess you could say, or whatever it is, just don't match, they collide. You know what I mean. So that same person that could be a narcissist to me could be the best lover to you. You know it also matches on like how you interact with the person and like how you know not everybody's gonna get along. That's right, I don't know. That's what I think. What about you?
Speaker 1:joey well, you know. That's why they say it takes what do they say 60 or six months or seven months to really see who somebody truly is right. And one of one of the big traits in a narcissist is love bombing right and when does that usually start right off?
Speaker 1:right at the beginning yeah, and I was just think and I was just thinking this is that, that I think we all do it to an degree, because when you meet someone because it's really hard to meet someone that makes you feel that way, that soon, and that like you got that spark, you got that fuck, and that's where that honeymoon phase comes in and you always want to see them. And now you're just.
Speaker 1:Your feelings are like fucking your head's a mess, but in a good way and then you, you know, and this is where you kind of we, the love bombing comes in, right, but that's why you know, when they say seven months I don't know where they get that exact number, but I think people show you who they really are sooner than that. Personally, yeah, you know, but I think that's where, because, like in a narcissist, in a narcissist world, you know they're telling you everything you want to hear. They're love bombing you for the first two, three months. This guy's amazing, this girl's amazing, oh my God. And then all of a sudden, the silent treatment comes in, the name calling the gaslighting. So I think you know you can find out pretty quick, quicker than seven months, I believe know you can find out pretty quick, quicker than seven months, I believe.
Speaker 1:But that's when you really you know, and it's hard to take your time with someone. Uh, when you start feeling like that about someone, because you're smiling, you're like, oh my god, this person's amazing, right? So is it? It's really hard to distinguish the. Is that a narcissistic feelings or is it that you? You know what I mean. Yeah, so it's.
Speaker 1:It's a tough one because once you meet someone and that's why it's hard for people in general to date is because they don't find anybody where they have that connection or that spark, and that's what everyone's looking for, right. But once you have it and you kind of get twisted in it because I know I've been like that where you're all of a sudden you're like man, I haven't felt like this in fucking years. Man, what's wrong with you? Now you're looking at your phone today message Was that them that called no, oh shit. And then you start you're fucking overthinking a little bit because now you're fucking tugging on your heartstrings. You know what I mean. So, and it's a good thing, but at the same time it can also be a bad thing, because now you I've talked out of anxiety, like being in my head and fucking the whole thing up by saying the wrong thing or whatever.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean because you're excited, but you didn't mean to say that. Oh sorry, I didn't mean to say that. And then you send it in a text and it comes across as completely different or whatever. Right, so it's really hard to distinguish sometimes the the narcissistic feelings compared to you.
Speaker 3:Know, you're just fucking falling in love too quickly, thin line, man, thin line, like would you say, love bombing is a narcissistic thing? I, I definitely think so, my me personally. I think love bombing is.
Speaker 2:It is because they want it.
Speaker 1:It actually is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you show them enough attention and validation, they're going to do whatever they can to get you, to keep you, to get whatever they can from you. And what happens a lot of times too is in those types of situations, the person who's not the narcissist will essentially have a fucking identity crisis by the time it's over, because they've they've lost their entire identity trying to serve this other person. Right. And that's what happened to me in my situation was when I was done, like man, I remember feeling fucking crazy because it was like when she was gone, it's like I don't even know who I am. I don't know what I love anymore. I don't know. Like, don't get me wrong Like I love my kids, like I love my job, like the basics, yeah, self care for me there was. There was none left for me.
Speaker 1:You know that's what had happened with me and that's what they do yeah, so you, you set yourself on fire just trying to keep her warm, that's what you did yeah and you know, and they also say with nart yeah well, I was just gonna say remember that the the girl I saw there, you met her yourself.
Speaker 3:You even said she's not the one for you. That's what happened to me is remember she love, bombed me. She just boom, boom, boom, said all this stuff, put me on this pedestal and I wasn't used to this like this is the first time it's ever happened to me. And then all of a sudden the next day, boom, all this. She had just attacked me, said all these things. And then all of a sudden the next day, boom, I all this, she had just attacked me, said all these things and then fucking disappeared out of the blue. And it was crazy. Obviously, after she, she reached out and said she had a drug problem. But I mean, it was wild, it was fucking wild.
Speaker 3:I think I guys told you a little bit where, uh, we had sex and then she's laying on top of me and then she says like no, no, and I'm like what do you mean? No, and she thought it was someone else, and then she fucking disappears. The next day she tells me to fuck off. She thought literally I was an inch, I sold her insurance, I'm an insurance dealer, and then that was the end of that it was. It was fucked man, it was crazy I think that's, I think it's.
Speaker 1:I don't know more than narcissism no, definitely there was. So yeah personality disorder right there for sure yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:But I mean, I've never been love bomb like that or like, just like, threw up on a pedestal so hard and so fast, man it was. It was intense and, like you said, like like on the opposite, because you did it to someone on the opposite, I, I, I felt that. And then you're this person, they tell you all this, they, they give all this to you and then all of a sudden they drop you and then you're left there like asking yourself, well, what the fuck? I thought it was all this to you, you know, and it's psychological fucking warfare really, when it comes down to it.
Speaker 1:Really Well. Then you're put in a position after feeling like that and treated like that, and that's where especially the women get sunk into this and they can't get out of there because they've told all this that never been told this and treated like this in my life. Then all of a sudden it's reverse and now they're getting gas lit. Now they're silent treatment. They're calling them names, humiliating them, you know guilt, tripping them all the time and it literally like it like one of the worst things actually mentally to do to someone is from what a narcissist does to them and the mental fucking damage that causes. Just like you said, it's like a fucking.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean yeah, man, man I'm telling you Super damaging dude, like super damaging.
Speaker 1:So I understand like how hard it is for people to try to uh get out of those relationships once you're in it. Yeah, you know, because part of that is one is it brings your self esteem to such a low you don't. Like Anthony said, he's trying to. You know he was always trying to reassure her and reassure them and it's always about them and don't feel that way. Let me make it better, let me try to fix it. Let me do it While the whole time you're fucking, you know you're breaking inside because you're not doing the things that is making you happy. You're trying to do things to make them happy when you don't really want to do it, but you're constantly because you're and they say this a lot is that narcissists especially attract the empaths.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because the empaths are people pleasers, and that's what I was. I was a people pleaser. I'd be a liar. And when I look back at it, yeah, you're always, like you just said, setting ourselves on fire to try to keep everybody else warm, making sure they're good. Let me make you happy. What else can I do for you? But meanwhile I'm in such a down depressive state I have no self-esteem, no self-worth. I don't feel good about myself because I'm just trying to jack you up.
Speaker 1:And that's what with narcissists, that's what these relationships end up doing is because they're constantly trying to lift them up and make them happy, because it's all about them and never about how you feel, and and because, in a narcissist as well, is that they have no empathy, right. So how can they actually feel, or look at you and feel bad for you and understand where you're coming from? They don't, right, they can't. So it's true, they can't. So true, man, it's a tough one. But again, it is such a trend, right, that everybody's a narcissist. It's easier. But again it's that catch 22, and everyone that throws that word out, that's a 10, that that's a narcissistic tendency, not taking accountability or self-reflecting. So it's like you're kind of contradicting yourself by doing that.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, yeah it's just like the I love your weird situation it's the same as I love you. Everybody just throws that shit around too, like it's fucking. I don't know, I don't know something. That's that too, and that too is.
Speaker 1:You know, a lot of people are in lust, not love.
Speaker 1:100 you're having a great moment, a cup of drinks, oh my god, I'd love. And then the next day you're like why did I say that to her? She's telling her friends. He told me he loves me. Either you fucked it up with her because you moving too fast, because you're love bombing, and then you throw that word out on the fourth date. Yeah, or you know what I mean, or will you marry me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But when it comes to feelings, man like it, it's, it's a tough one. Man like you gotta watch how damaging it really is. Like you know insulting someone or you know saying something. But when it comes to like like the narcissist and how they treat people and like saying I love you to someone because some people take that like to heart, oh you know what I mean. Like everybody, everybody wants to be loved.
Speaker 1:And when someone's in front of them saying that I love you and I want to do this for you, then all of a sudden, a week later, they're cheating on you and they're fucking haven't talked to you in four days and ghosting you. Like that fucks people up royally. Like I don't know what I did, because I used to. I was like that. I'm like I don't know what I did. I was treating her good, I didn't cheat, I was faithful and I never swore at her. What did I do wrong? But you know that's also a lot of damaged people that didn't fix their shit before they met you and again that goes into a lot of people like bleed on all these people that didn't cut them right because all the shit they never dealt with. And now you have good people that come around and we're just getting shit on all the time and now we're fucking broken and fucked up. So it's it's.
Speaker 2:It's a it's a tough world man soissism is one of those things where there's no fucking winner man.
Speaker 3:There's no winning Moral of the story just be a good fucking person man, I was just about to say just be a good fucking person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, be mindful of other people's feelings, yeah.
Speaker 3:Uncloud your fucking thoughts, man, and just step, step back, realize what you're doing and fucking just be a good fucking person.
Speaker 1:Simple as that we all just really not hard to be a good person?
Speaker 3:no, apparently it is, but yet.
Speaker 1:But apparently it is man, because the amount of people out there that are just rude, ignorant, don't give a shit. I'm just like man, you guys blows my mind. Man Blows my mind. It is the easiest thing, just to say hello. Good morning, Thank you. How was your day, Dude a?
Speaker 3:comment like that could rock somebody's fucking world.
Speaker 2:Man, that could make someone's day. And you know, what I love and this is why I'm excited to start getting guests on this show Is everybody has a fucking story, everyone, even the person who's road raging, being an asshole in traffic. They've got a story. We've all got stories. So we want you To come on our show and tell your fucking story. So shoot us a message at rawmindspodcastgmailcom. If you want to be a guest on our show. We'd love to have you.
Speaker 2:Um, we're very solution focused here. You know, like, let's make let's make the positive changes, and we don't play victim here. You can play it in the make the positive changes and we don't play victim here. You can play it in the past, that's fine, but we don't do that here. Um, so if, if you want to come on and talk about your triumphs or you want to work towards something for yourself, hit us up. Like Joey said at the beginning, if you've made it this far in the show, we're on all platforms Give us a follow, shout us out, rate us follow, shout us out, rate us, because it helps us get up in the rankings like we want to. We want to make this thing a big deal. You guys are a big deal to us and we want to be a big deal to you guys too. We love you all.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, be a good fucking person, right, that's it yeah, buddy it's like it said on the old VHS tapes just be kind rewind fucking blockbuster baby shout out to blockbuster alright man be good people yeah, buddy, alright.
Speaker 3:Well, that's it. I guess boys always a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Man love you guys love you too, bye boys, always a pleasure, man love you guys love you too. Yeah, yeah, bye.
